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Boat Ladder for Kids - Opinions on this one?

12K views 36 replies 11 participants last post by  Yarrow 
#1 ·
I'm trying to set up a paddle raft that will provide the most enjoyment and the least amount of trauma for my younger kids- including when it comes to getting in and out of the boat- until they can do it on their own. It's all a part of my master plan to see how many of them I can convert to the sport, of course...

I've been looking at rescue ladders and reading the threads here. I can't seem to settle on either the little Nettie's ladder or the pricey GCPBA ladder- at least not yet. Searching the web, I came across this ladder. It appears to have some sturdiness without the cost. Anyone used this ladder before? Any thoughts about potential drawbacks or hazards as compared to the others?

Here's a link that has all the specs:NEW 3-Step Inflatable Boat, Dock, Swim Raft, Dingy, Rope Ladder | eBay
 

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#3 ·
The idea of a re-entry ladder on a paddle raft is completely counter intuitive.

Accessories like ladders that allow for 'easy' re-entry to the boat were developed for older folks in calm water. I can see a ladder for the old fart-types so they can get out of the water after a voluntary swim or pee, but they aren't practical in a whitewater swim situation. What happens when the kid falls out on the left side when the ladder is on the right?

If kids are old enough to run a paddle boat, they are old enough to learn self rescue and also pulling their fellow paddlers back on board. Just spend more time teaching them team work, safety, and rescue techniques.
 
#4 ·
Hi,

Well I have to somewhat disagree with the assertion that ladders are for flatwater. My "GCPBA" ladder (Dave Yeamans' invention - actual name Rescue Rung) got me back in my boat immediately after being dumped out in Lava a couple of years ago. Big guy, 30" cat tubes, big waves -- quick, safe re-entry.

But the day to day benefit on my GC trips seemed to be for facilitating casual swims, and for female passengers, who used it to step off and re-board the boat easily to conduct their business.

FWIW.

Rich Phillips
 
#10 ·
I have the same ladder and it's pretty awesome. I have the three rung version. I bought it for my wife and kids initially, but I might end up using it a lot myself too. I have a green jacket rescue PFD. I use the throw rope that goes in the clamshell on the front of the jacket. That big bump catches on the tube when I'm trying to pull myself up and won't let me get in the boat. I could've really used it three weeks ago paddling in R2 in Hells Canyon. I flipped in granite rapid and tried to pull myself up only to get that stupid clamshell caught four or five times. I finally made it onto the boat was really tired.

The beauty of the rescue rung is that it can be rigged so that it can be used both in a flip or right side up.

However, rope ladders are not easy to use and are not intuitive. All of my kids failed initially. It will take a little bit of training to successfully use one. The problem for the untrained user is your feet want to go forward under the boat until they are at waist level. In this position, your upper body still has to do all of the lifting without any help from your feet. The trick is to use your abdominal muscles to keep your feet underneath and behind you. It feels like you are arching your back if you do it correctly. It is definitely something that you want to practice before you get in a flip. In the OP's case, with a girl who is so nervous and hesitant to get in the water, this will not be an immediate solution to his problem. In fact, it could make it worse. As long as you have someone modeling the correct technique to her, things should go a lot smoother.



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#6 ·
Thanks for the comments. I can appreciate what you're saying DoStep. Teaching my children safety and rescue fundamentals is a priority for me. It is a paddle boat, and we have 4 strong paddlers in our family. However, I also have three young girls who will be along for the ride and I would like them to feel some confidence about getting in and out of the boat on their own while they build their strength.

I am getting the ladder primarily for swimming in calm stretches of water. My oldest daughter refused to try swimming in the past because she was panicked about not being able to get back in the boat in time- even with her dad there to pull her in. That made the whole experience rather "dry" for her. I also see the ladder being very handy for uses described by richp. Especially with 5 girls in our family. No sense making that kind of relief more difficult than it needs to be...

I can see how the ladder may or may not be useful in a rescue situation, but the slight chance that it may- as richp experienced- is important to me in my current family dynamic.

Again, thanks for your insights.
 
#12 ·
Thanks for the tips, DrAndy. I've thought about the nature of these ladders and imagined exactly what you described. As soon as I decide on one, I plan to take my family out on a lake to practice. I appreciate your description of how to access core strength to climb up. I will use that.

Will you explain to me how the rescue rung can be rigged for both upside and downside? I'm a novice with the technical side of rafting/gear. Is this really specific to the rescue rung, or could other ladders (such as the one I pictured in the initial post) be rigged to do the same?
 
#14 ·
Exactly what Rich said.

When I'm doing easy runs where I don't anticipate any flips, I just strap it to the frame. I was out on the Cabarton yesterday and today and used the crap out of it. I'm going to get Rescue Rungs for all my boats.

I imagine that any ladder could be rigged for dual use whether on a flip or right side up. The problem with ladders in a flip or deploying in a rapid or whitewater is the entrapment risk is real. The Rescue Rung was invented by a real life rocket scientist to prevent entrapments. The Rescue Rung is expensive and it's made for flips and whitewater re-entries. Other ladders can definitely be used in flat water but their use in any other circumstances comes at a risk. Your use for your family sounds perfect, but it might not be a dual use.

I have been making my kids get out of the boat and practice climbing back in by hooking an ankle on top of the spare oar. They brace up on top of the oar, kneel on it and then climb into the boat. They are getting better at it. But, if the boat is rigged to paddle or upside down, that might not be there. And the ladder is so easy once you master the "move".

Good luck!




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#16 ·
You are welcome Yarrow. I

heard a scary statistic today. I was told that regardless of whether a swimmer is wearing a wetsuit or dry suit they have about seven minutes in the water until they freeze Up. The problem is that the neck is not usually covered by dry suit or wetsuits and the increased activity and the oxygen consumption causes increased blood flow through the arteries on the neck. That results in rapid heat loss. So it is imperative that you get out of the water quickly, even when wearing a dry suit. This really emphasizes the need for rapid reentry into the raft like Rich Phillips was talking about. Especially, in cold water.

By the way, I just purchased two more rescue rungs from Tough River Stuff (A buzz supporter and sponsor) last night. They are spendy, but safety, especially the safety of my family is my most important priority. I would rather spend the extra money on good PFD's and other safety gear first.
 
#19 ·
Based on personal experience...that seems a bit wrong to me unless its truly freezing water.

I did a Grand trip last February into March, and we decided it would be fun to swim Hermit Rapid on Paco Pads. It was probably 50 degree air temperature and 40 degree water at that point, and I was comfortable in my drysuit without a problem. Mine even has a Neoprene neck gasket instead of latex so its a bit leaky. No hat or head coverage, and just a Polartec fleece union suit underneath. One of the guys that joined me decided to swim all the way to camp after walking back up to run it again without a Paco Pad. He was probably in the water for 20 minutes.

I'm not saying you won't get cold, but a drysuit with a proper insulating layer underneath will make a huge difference and unless its truly frigid water it take a lot more then 5 minutes for most people to get into a severe hypothermic state.

That said, I'm one of those people that can't get back in a raft without aid so I think the ladder systems are great. I have the three rung version of one of these...

Finally an easy way to get back in your raft with Nettie's Bag Ladders, the Original.


Its a lot cheaper then the rescue rung but does about the same thing. It doubles as a flip line if you wanted as well. I've clipped it in next to my NRS flip lines and I've also kept it in my PFD pocket. Easy enough to pull it out and clip it and then climb in.
 
#17 ·
That is an unsettling statistic. I've never been in cold water with a drysuit longer than 5 minutes at a time. Even 5 minutes is surprisingly exhausting. Interesting that it's a precursor to hypothermia. And you're right, it does make quick rescue options that much more critical.

Speaking of PFD's, what would you recommend for kids? Mine all need an upgrade.
 
#18 ·
I bought my kids the standard NRS kids ones. I recently bought some HiFloat Stohlquist Canyons (70-125lbs) youth for bigger water. NRS makes some HiFloat youth (50-90lbs) models that are for smaller kids. They cost almost 2-3 times more than the standard NRS PFDs but they have 20 lbs of flotation.
 
#20 ·
Interesting. I wonder if it depends on the amount of exertion involved, i.e. floating vs. defensive swimming where there would be increased blood flow in the neck?

I like that the Nettie's ladder is portable... And I like that the Rescue Rung is more substantial... Thanks for your input, ElectricM.

And thanks for the PFD info, Dr. Andy. The standard NRS ones will be an upgrade from what we've got now. I'll probably do that.
 
#22 ·
Dr. Andy, I'm just about to hit purchase on the Rescue Rung but debating between 2 and 3 rungs. You said you have the 3 rung- do you think it's necessary to have that extra step for kids or would the 2 rung do the job just as well or better? I guess I'm wondering if that extra step is just "extra" length that ends up pulling you under the boat anyway. I'm going at this blind as I've never used a ladder like this before... TIA
 
#23 ·
I have asked myself the same question. I think for smaller kids, the answer is yes, the 2 will work. For adults or larger kids, or larger tubes, I think the 3 step is easier to use. I just ordered 2 more a couple weeks ago and I considered getting the 2 step. I went with the 3 step again.
 
#26 ·
Have my kids in the NRS Vistas the NRS big water 5's have more floatation, head pillow, and optional leg strap. Astral just came out with a sweet kids PFD this year also.

I can see a ladder possibly on a cat with big tubes or gear boat that you can't get back into but man a paddle raft I am a little skeptical. Sounds like you have a full raft so having it on the side is going to be in the way of paddling? Storing is going to be awkward also. Paddle rafts you are part of a team so as a team help each other back in the raft. Same in flat as whitewater. If the raft flips you don't need to climb on your raft to flip it back over. If u do use a ladder on a paddle raft let us know how that works out.


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#27 ·
Yeah, that is true about a paddle rafts. Having it mounted on the side will get in the way of paddling. You might have mount it towards the stern or bow. I will be able to give you better feedback on it soon when I mount one on my paddle raft. If you do have to mount it on the stern or bow, the 3 step will be the way to go.
 
#28 ·
Good point, TLaf. It won't always be a paddle raft, but I'd still like to see if it works. The water is too high and too fast here in Utah for me to try it out on a river any time soon- at least not on purpose. So yes, Dr. Andy, let me know how it goes.
 
#29 ·
Here are some videos of the Rescue Rung in action:

https://youtu.be/3m1IhQWm6MQ
https://youtu.be/T9w1hq5yPAI

The first video is my daughter getting in from the side. The ladder is clove hitched to the side of the frame with two 3' can straps. You can see, that she used the decks and rails to help pull herself up.

In the second video I climb in with the Rung attached to the front D-ring. This is how I would rig it for a paddle raft, either in the bow or stern of the raft. You can see that I struggle a little for handholds once I am standing up on the ladder. I think rigging some handholds using cam straps or something similar would speed re-entry and make it easier. Thanks to the kick at the bow/stern, the 3 rung ladder is definitely the way to go.


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#30 ·
You made videos! Thanks, Dr. Andy! I'm primarily a visual learner, so I really appreciate that.

Do you think it would be better to have the ladder on the stern rather than the bow considering the current in faster water? Again, total newbie here, just trying to think it through. My wheels are turning about those extra handholds now. I'd love to see this work.
 
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