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Old 07-18-2016   #11
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billings, Montana
Paddling Since: Tues
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Posts: 333
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Waterproof (sealed) blind rivets with backing washers. 3/16 diameter, #7 drill bit, lube them with silicone. Ten years and too many boxes to count, no leaks. Cheap to boot!

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Old 07-19-2016   #12
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Niwot, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2005
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 750
I was going to hijack this thread. I know putting footman loops on ammo cans are one thing - what about frame tubing (DRE)? Guys in the shop stated that they wouldn't trust a loop during a serious flip that is riveted to the frame.

Any thoughts on this?

"It's supposed to be hard. If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The hard... is what makes it great."
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Old 07-19-2016   #13
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salmon, Idaho
Paddling Since: 2004
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 639
I found these and I think it's the route I'm going to take.. Put a little silicone on the rivet.. The tri grip is supposed to give it more holding power and the reviews are pretty good.. Looks like these are popular for mounting footman loops on sit on top kayaks where you don't have access to the back side.
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Old 07-19-2016   #14
Portland, Oregon
Paddling Since: 2005
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 47
I wouldn't trust a footman loop on anything heavy. I only use it on my small ammo cans. Also, hardware store aluminum pop rivets really have pretty low strength to them. An aluminum rivet is going to also expand and contract at different rate than steel producing its own wear. I would not suggest using them on a frame. Im an aircraft mechanic and we use cherry max blind rivets when we cant put in a proper rivet which are much stronger but I still wouldn't use them on a frame. A bolt or proper strength screw are going to give you higher strength plus they are much easier to replace if needed. I've drilled out thousands of rivets and you never get them all out cleanly.
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Old 07-19-2016   #15
aka The Curmudgeon
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Hopelessly Stuck in Yesterday, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1994
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 322
My footman loops on 50 cal ammo cans and on my tubular DRE frame are about 20 years old now with no failures and no leaks. I used #10 or 12 machine screws with lockwashers inside the cans, neoprene flat washers and blue silicone on the outside. I tapped the holes in the frame for the same screws. Silicone on the outside of the can is more important than on the inside, but do both, just because you can.

the Capt
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Old 08-03-2016   #16
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Missoula, Montana
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 32
I've welded 1inch angle on to my groovers to hang them off my frame with no problems after 5 years. It does warp a little just take it slow and make sure you grind the paint off first!

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Old 08-09-2016   #17
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Hailey, Idaho
Paddling Since: 2003
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 16

I've welded tabs onto my ammo cans to hang them from the frame. Super easy job. As has been stated, they do like to warp a bit if you try to run solid beads. Just throw an inch on at a time and move around boxes/sides/tabs, etc. to minimize all warping. If I recall correctly most cans are 16 guage which really isn't a tough thickness for anyone with any kind of experience with a welder. Especially if you don't care what the beads look like. They also clean up easy if you so prefer. Also when grinding the paint, I recommend a dust mask. Not positive, but pretty sure all that thick old military paint is lead based.

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