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Old 11-03-2015   #11
John_in_Loveland's Avatar
Loveland, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1990
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 149
No sorry

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Old 11-03-2015   #12
Dipshit with the most.
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Bellevue, Idaho
Paddling Since: 1991
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 2,497
Originally Posted by sarahkonamojo View Post
I have run the Poudre at 5' and the MFS at +9'
MFS colder and more wood movement.
With raft support, camps can be more difficult to catch on the MFS. Biggest difference at all flows is the character of The Middle Fork changes remarkably from put-in to take out. Poudre-ish at put-in to hmm... Westwater-ish at the take-out.
Late May you also might be putting in on Marsh Creek if the road is not open to Boundary Creek. That can change things quite a bit. Due to wood you really need to pay attention and figure out what you are going to do at Dagger.
High water on MFS has much better surfing than low water. And better surfing than the Poudre at high water.

Just curious when you were on it at 9' and if that was the only time, how do you rate the surfing as better than at low (er) water? My experience is that the surfing gets quite surgey at much over 6.5 to 7 feet. At 5.5 to 6.5 there are numerous fast, catchable waves and some pseudo holes to play in that don't exist above 7+.

Unless I am reading something wrong you must have seen it at lower flows.

But you nailed it. Very cold and fast. Marsh could be an issue for sure. Should be fine in an IK over the raft. Until it's not. Hardest class 3 in the world. Or biggest consequences or something. At high flow anyway.

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Old 11-03-2015   #13
the fort, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2001
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 672
Have to echo what others have already said. I've been on the Poudre a lot between 1' and 5' and the MFS one time at somewhere over 3'. From Boundary to probably Pistol/Indian Creek or so, they are very similar rivers - continuous, fast, and pretty tight in spots. Below Pistol/Indian Creek on the MFS, the similarities disappear. The river opens up, so you have a lot more room to move around, whereas the Poudre stays pretty tight and continuous. The biggest difference for me, though, is the size of the rapids lower in the MFS drainage. There's nothing like Weber, Rubber, etc., on the Poudre in terms of size and volume. Complexity, yes, probably moreso than the MFS, but def not size.

The other big factor is having no road next door in case things turn south on the MFS.
By the waterside I will lay my head.
Listen to the river sing sweet songs to rock my soul.
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Old 11-04-2015   #14
John_in_Loveland's Avatar
Loveland, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1990
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 149
THANK YOU everyone for your input. I thought it might help if I provided a bit more information. My purpose in starting this post was to "calibrate" my skill set in order to decide how to approach this invitation.

I have extensive Poudre experience, having kayaked it at all levels from 1' to 5'. I have run everything except Rustic and the Narrows and was quite comfortable. I have also kayaked the Grand, the Salt, Westwater at various levels, and the Arkansas. Thus my reason for asking about running an IK down the MFS. I feel fairly confident I could handle it - its been awhile but I still "feel" my brace somewhere inside...chuckle.

My rafting experience is a bit more limited. I have run the Poudre (lower Mish and Bridges) a couple times at 3-4' and didn't have any problems. I have rowed the Main Salmon twice and Westwater once without issue.

I'm confidant of the group experience, just not so much of seeking lots of input. Besides, as anyone who knows me will attest, I'm pretty OCD when it comes to planning a river trip. My goal is to have a "gas" on this trip and not do anything to cause it to become "an Epic"

Anyway thanks for the help...keep it coming if you care to.

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Old 11-04-2015   #15
FoCo,NoCo, Colorado
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 280
Carve Dog,

I have run the MFS more times at high water (4' and up) than at low water (+/- 3' and one time very low in August.)
It just seemed to me that at high water the waves were more dynamic and there were more of them. It is true that some of the standard play waves are washed out at high water.
Definitely, the wave trains are bouncier and there is much more camp time at high water. Any boatable flow is good. Can't beat the MFS!


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