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Old 09-16-2016   #51
 
pojoaque, New Mexico
Paddling Since: 1972
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 116
the way it goes

Given the subject, thought you might enjoy this story. Was invited on a GC trip last year, last minute kind of thing with people I didn't know but who were experienced and sounded good. It was a DIYer mainly except a couple small things like groover rocket boxes we were going to rent from an outfitter and split the cost of. I committed me and a friend two weeks before trip and that same day (just before I sent $$), the TL said there had been some small changes. The change was that two of his friends were going to go and that "we" the group was going to split the cost of renting 2 18ers so that they could each row their own boat. Needless to say, I declined at that point. Amazing to me what some people think is a reasonable proposal. I've got my gear and pay to haul it and repair it and maintain it. There's always a few things that get lost or broken every trip - those are my costs to bear as well. Some say it's reasonable to split everything equally because it all works out in the end but in my experience, it's always the same people hauling trailers for hundreds of miles to provide the group boats and infrastructure and the same people showing up in their little Honda wondering where their beer will go and expecting to pay no bigger share than anybody else. Your mileage may vary...

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Old 09-16-2016   #52
 
bighorn1478@msn.com's Avatar
 
lafayette or Grand Lake, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1961
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 617
Quote:
Originally Posted by tanderson View Post
One vote for Trejos,

I completely support boaters with their own gear not having to pay for the rentals of others. I have paid a ton on floating and will not pay for others floating equipment. If we need one big cargo hauler, then perhaps I might may an exception. Everybody should come to a trip with either the equipment of the money for the equipment.

One thing that we do on trips where people get to ride on boats, is that the riders get to do the shuttle while the owners rig, relax, and sip a few down.

Tda
They might as well shuttle because they only get in the way rigging.
I have and never will drive a shuttle and deny a nice retired senior citizen like me their supplemental income.

I was asked once to kick in on raft rental for a trip I was supplying a boat and most the gear for. LMAO
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Old 09-16-2016   #53
 
Portland, Oregon
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 164
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Originally Posted by elkhaven View Post
Why wait? By 5 my kids already had several multi days... nothing very difficult but many days none-the-less. Don't wait too long, it'll only get more difficult.

My current thinking (I say current because this could change) is if I can't huck my daughter into the deep-end without a full blown meltdown / panic attack she isn't ready for the river. But yes, I totally get the "do it now" or else logic'


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Old 09-17-2016   #54
Dipshit with the most.
 
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Bellevue, Idaho
Paddling Since: 1991
Join Date: May 2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by semievolved View Post
----- it's always the same people hauling trailers for hundreds of miles to provide the group boats and infrastructure and the same people showing up in their little Honda wondering where their beer will go and expecting to pay no bigger share than anybody else. Your mileage may vary...
this reminded me of why I quit doing 'just pay your own shuttle'. We were still derigging rafts and six kayakers jammed into their suby and took off. 'Thanks for the trip, we gotta go catch this wave before dark.....'

The amazing thing is they thought it was all good. I run with a tighter crew now.
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Old 09-17-2016   #55
 
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Colorado Springs, Colorado
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy H. View Post
If it happens all the time and with the same people, it sounds like it's time for some folks to step up and get some gear. Another option, if you feel like you're disproportionately bringing more than your share every time you go on trips, would be to tell the members of the group you're bringing certain items and don't volunteer anything more. If they're reasonable people and committed to being on the river, they should understand and be ready to go out and get that firepan, groover, etc. Lots of group gear can be rented, it shouldn't fall on one person to bring it all, all the time.

-AH
+1.

I have most all required and many other river gear and usually bring much of it. I'm glad to do it if it means another invite, plus of course being a good guy and safe competent rafter on the water. If other people don't bring much I'm cool with that, since usually they figure it out and contribute in other ways.
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Old 09-18-2016   #56
 
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Lakewood, Colorado
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PDX Duck View Post
How does the saying go --- a fool and his money soon part? I spend my cash on rafting gear because I am a gearhead, like to always improve on the previous season and enjoy finding the coolest / most useful sh*t on the river. I don't factor my investment into the equation because I see it as a sunk cost and I too am the guy who has the Boat, Cat, IK and 95% of the gear it takes to run a multi-day trip.

That being said, I would probably change my tune if it were a 20 day trip on the Grand and 10 people had to pony up for full meal deals and all I was looking at was food and getting my sorry ass down to Lee's Ferry.

I don't think there is a wrong answer here, just many different ways to skin the cat. Either way the dollars gets sliced it is a hell of a way to spend your days.
Thats great for you....but IMHO that neither is nor should be the norm.

I'm a gearhead too and enjoy aquiring it, but the cost of said gear is certainly not immaterial to me. I'm definitely with others on here in that I would not be happy if someone required me to chip in for the rental of other peoples gear unless it is true group gear. I've paid for my rig I'm not asking them to pay for my gear, and I don't think someone who brings a fully rigged and trip ready boat should be obligated to pay for the rental of others raft.

The only exception to that is if you are going on a trip that has already paid for an outfitter expecting everyone to use the rental rafts and you insist on bringing your own. If there is a spot on a raft that is provided for me and despite that I insist on bringing my own for whatever reason...then you should feel obligated to pay the rental fee. That is about the only way I personally would pay for rental rafts I didn't use.
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Old 09-18-2016   #57
 
Portland, Oregon
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 164
Agree entirely that cost of gear is not immaterial --- if I came across that way apologies.

There is one reason, and one reason only I am not looking at a Maravia for the next boat and / or cat.

Not trying to persuade folks one way or the other, just gave my opinion / input on a question.


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Old 09-18-2016   #58
 
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Niwot, Colorado
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As the OP of this thread - I thought it would be good to chime in again since I did a large group trip recently and was also responsible for the finances. The short of it - I'm with Electric-Mayhem - completely.

Those that rent were responsible for their rentals and those that owned were not. We did rent a couple of extra SUPs and those were split by the entire group.

The group expenses were all the consumables which, for the most part, made up the majority of the expenses - sans the shuttle.

I would not want to be part of a trip where I would have to share the cost of those that rented their rigs as one who brings all their own gear.

For a 4 day trip it would have made my financial burden an additional $325 for my family if I would have assumed the rental cost load of those that rented.
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Old 09-19-2016   #59
 
Portland, Oregon
Join Date: Mar 2015
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My last 3 night trip was $350 / person (6 people) and that included a free trip for the guest of honor with rental included --- where do you guys rent from?


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Old 09-19-2016   #60
 
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Niwot, Colorado
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PDX Duck View Post
My last 3 night trip was $350 / person (6 people) and that included a free trip for the guest of honor with rental included --- where do you guys rent from?
Different places depending on where we are putting on. Remember - the cost, for your methodology, will be dependent on what the ratio of rented gear for those that don't own to that of those that do.
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