Group Gear & Finances - Page 4 - Mountain Buzz
 



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Old 08-08-2016   #31
 
trevko's Avatar
 
Fort Fun, Colorado
Paddling Since: 94
Join Date: Jul 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Read_N_Run View Post
Do most people average out all the food costs or just divide up meals?
We just divide up meals. Everyone cooks good meals, not over the top and not cans of baked beans with hotdogs. We never nickel and dime one another. Like others have said - its about being on the river.

I have a spread sheet that a friend developed that works well for group gear. Most of it gets spread around fairly evenly. One trip this year I brought a lot because: a). I have it, b). I didn't pull any permits, I didn't know the permit holder and was stoked to get the invite through a mutual friend.

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Old 08-08-2016   #32
 
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Bazzaro, World
Paddling Since: 2020
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The more money comes into play the more I want out! Nothing I hate more then arguing over dollars.

This only becomes a problem when a dedicated boater expects people who are on the fence to pay the true cost of their floating experience. Hard core boaters will spend the $$ for good gear and we value it. Most people who need to barrow gear would not go rafting if they had to pay the true cost of floating. So for an experienced boater to have exceptions that your guests are willing to be "All IN" or equally dedicated in the money area is a stretch. They just simply choose to do other things with their money or they would have the gear.

Guests are just that guests, they can help offset labor, shuttle, gas, food, ect but never should they pitch in for your personal gear wear and tear. If they don't have it and you expect them too, don't invite them.

If you have issues with loaning gear, don't do it. If you need money for your gear because of wear and tear, start a business.
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Old 08-08-2016   #33
 
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Henderson, Nevada
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Do people really expect a raft owner to chip in on raft rentals for others. When I needed to rent a raft for a Deso trip only the people in the raft paid for the raft rental. Don't get me wrong I bought a raft knowing I don't have any true rafting friends. I have those friends who will come on a trip now and then. I have spare gear for most of my hobbies and I charge nothing to use. I look at it this way. In my raft I have and can carry everything I need for a trip with my wife and the dog so why would I be responsible for any rental fees at all. I can understand food, beer, shuttles, and permit fees. I don't mind paying my fair share or even buying the gear our group is lacking but even if I purchased an item specifically for a trip I would never ask anyone to chip it what a rental would have cost. I get to keep it, so win/win. I spent thousands to acquire my gear and I would find it unfair if I was asked to pay for someone else's rental boat.
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Old 08-08-2016   #34
 
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Wheat Ridge, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1995
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Originally Posted by jgrebe View Post
I pretty much agree with Andy EXCEPT on really big trips like the Grand. Where it gets interesting is when some people rent boats and some people bring their own.
Thanks for the clarification Jeff, and yeah, I pretty much agree with what I said EXCEPT on really big trips like the Grand.

And I wouldn't expect raft owners to chip in on raft rentals, just the folks riding in or depending on that raft.

And Mowgli is spot on with this:

Quote:
volunteer your personal group gear if you want. Don't volunteer if you don't want to.
Folks I usually go with add up all the costs for food, permit, expendables (propane, TP, some things for the kitchen box, etc.) and split it evenly per person. I personally prefer trips where all the meals done by the group due to the communal aspect. I think it's good to give folks planning and shopping meals some rough per person budget numbers to keep costs reasonable (seems like you can eat pretty well for $5/breakfast, $5 lunch, & $10 - $15 for dinner).

I'm OK with everyone bringing their own food too and when we do that I usually like to silently eat my PB&J by myself over on my boat, swill a Schlitz, and grunt & scowl at anyone that tries to engage me in conversation.

But seriously, there are lots of ways to do all this that all work. You usually learn from the folks you go with early in your career, and adjust as you go.

The main thing is to make sure everyone on the trip is clear on the expectations before they have to commit to going on a trip.

Have we beaten this horse to death yet?

-AH
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Old 08-08-2016   #35
 
Fort Collins
Join Date: Oct 2004
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Food costs

The way we do food depends heavily on the group. With some groups, we can assign meals and feel confident we will be fed well and fairly. With other groups if we did that, someone would bring a nice meal and someone else would do the frozen pasta and ragu thing, and not even think through how much food they actually needed, so we would be hungry (its happened).

So we learned, and can go either way depending on the group. When we do pool funds and do group meals, we tend to prorate our eaters by age/appetite. The standard meal feeds 1 adult, young kids are 0.5, middle kids are 0.75, and teenagers are probably 1.5-2. This helps with food planning for gauging portions, as well as prorating food costs. In then end, excel figures out what everyone owes, and checks are exchanged as necessary.
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Old 08-08-2016   #36
 
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irvine, California
Paddling Since: 1987
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I plan on about 1.25 portions per person on my meals. Seems to work well, as diets swing towards folks having an appetite on trips.

Everyone saves their receipts, costs are added up and divided at the end. Please bring cash? I've never seen someone (so far) not do their best...ok once. He brought MRE's. I was not amused.


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Old 08-09-2016   #37
 
Aurora, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2000
Join Date: Apr 2006
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We've never tried to allocate costs based on how big an eater one was. We've done the split planning a few times, but overall, that adds costs and makes for a lot of overlap in both time and foodstuffs. As long as I have the time ahead of the trip, I'm happy to do the shopping for the whole trip and split everything at the end.

I can usually eat pretty dern well and keep the food budget to 10-12$/person/day- that includes basically all consumables: ice, propane, groover cleanout/TP, dish supplies, foil, etc. If it's a bunch of guys or a group that doesn't care so much about how well we eat, I can get it to $8/p/d. If I edge the budget up to $15/p/d we can eat very well.\

As to portion sizes, I have had pretty good luck with most groups by doubling the number of servings the packaging says. That is, if I have 10 people, and a bag of pasta says it has 10 servings, I need 2 bags. That seems to be a pretty close estimate for almost all the groups.
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Old 08-09-2016   #38
 
fishingraft's Avatar
 
Wheat Ridge, Colorado
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 136
Group Gear finances

FYI, we use the app Splittr to easily divide expenses and figure out who owes who what, from rafting trips to group outings. Then Venmo (another app) or PayPal gets everyone settled up very easily. No personal check or cash mumbo jumbo necessary.

http://www.splittrapp.com

excel works fine too if you feel like more work
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Old 09-14-2016   #39
 
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White salmon, Washington
Paddling Since: 05
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Just hypothetical numbers here from a boat owner.

Trip one-
10 people on a trip
5 boats rented
$100 per boat per day for 10 days =$5,000
10/$5,000=$500 dollars a person in raft rentals

Trip two
I show up with my own raft and don't share in the rental cost of the other boats.

9 people without boats on the trip
4 rafts rented
$100 per boat per day for 10 days=$4,000
9/$4000=$445 per non boat owning person.


On one additional item discussed, providing group gear.
If I bring along my Partner 4 burner so the group does not have to rent one I am saving everyone money. But in the middle of the night the camp down stream sneaks into our camp and steals said stove and are long down the rio before it is realized.
If that were a rental stove wouldn't the rental company then charge the group the price to replace it? So in turn if it were my stove would the group not share that replacement cost as well?
I am not talking about flipping my raft drunk and not bothering to strap it in prior to pushing off. I am not charging anyone for use of it. I like to supply gear that can make people more comfortable and save on group expenses. But if said gear is lost, stolen or damaged not because of incompetence then I would hope those that I like to support on the river would step up to the plate.


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Old 09-14-2016   #40
 
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Lakewood, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1993
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 564
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trejos View Post
On one additional item discussed, providing group gear.
If I bring along my Partner 4 burner so the group does not have to rent one I am saving everyone money. But in the middle of the night the camp down stream sneaks into our camp and steals said stove and are long down the rio before it is realized.
If that were a rental stove wouldn't the rental company then charge the group the price to replace it? So in turn if it were my stove would the group not share that replacement cost as well?
I am not talking about flipping my raft drunk and not bothering to strap it in prior to pushing off. I am not charging anyone for use of it. I like to supply gear that can make people more comfortable and save on group expenses. But if said gear is lost, stolen or damaged not because of incompetence then I would hope those that I like to support on the river would step up to the plate.


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Did that actually happen to you or is that a hypothetical situation? Pretty shitty if it did actually happen...I thought river people were better then that.

I've been on a trip where group gear got damaged and we all threw in to replace it. The seat on the groover got cracked and no one admitted their guilt (or didn't know they were the guilty party) so we all decided it was prudent to split costs so the owner of the groover wasn't on the hook for it.

If one person brings the majority of the group gear, then I think they should get a bit of a break. I know a lot of people who would insist that that not be the case and I would respect that. Usually it works out to be relatively evenly split between people.

Beyond financial cost is sharing the weight and inconvenience of carrying group gear. I've been on trips where one person owns most of the group gear, but I try to not make that mean that they have to carry it all themselves. Even if you aren't contributing financially, everyone on the trip should feel obligated to carry their fair share of the group gear. Again, there will often be the person that prefers to carry more gear and after a definite firm offer to help being declined firmly I'll usually respect that too. Doesn't mean I can't offer to help unload and load though.

I do think its fair giving people providing rafts and gear a bit of a break compared to passengers but don't expect it. I've been on trips where its equal costs for everyone and where the costs for being the owner of a raft setup was counted towards their trip cost. Seems fair to me that someone who has spent the money for a raft setup should get a break compared to someone who didn't, but again, I don't expect or insist on that.
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