Group Gear & Finances - Page 3 - Mountain Buzz
 



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Old 08-06-2016   #21
 
Bend, Oregon
Paddling Since: 1975
Join Date: Jul 2011
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Originally Posted by azpowell View Post
all trip costs get split down the middle (food, shuttle, rentals, consumables) having group gear is what gets people to invite you again... and lowers total group costs.
Same here. We usually have big trips maxing out our permits. I have two boats and I will bring them both if needed. A friend rents rafts from his shop. He brings one for free and if we need more, he'll bring them and get credit at a discount rental rate, (those boats could be making money somewhere else).

Whatever costs to make the trip happen are split. Just did a full Rogue trip for $140 per person including dinner and a house at Galice after the trip. Pretty cheap for four days on the water with my best friends.

I'm sure it could be done cheaper, But we're on vacation!!

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Old 08-06-2016   #22
 
Aurora, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2000
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Originally Posted by azpowell View Post
"well i brought the blaster and it would have cost us 2 dollars a day to rent one so on this week long trip i should pay 14 dollars less"<--- this is how you never get another invite from me
That's not how we roll, and not really what I was talking about when assigning a discount to folks who bring a whole raft.

For the purposes of discussion, let's figure a 10 person, shoulder season Grand trip, with 4 boats.

It costs about a grand to rent a boat for a Grand trip. Divided by 10 people that's a hundred bucks a boat. If I bring my boat that I've got several thousand dollars in, I don't really think it's fair for me to pay $300 more on my trip costs in order to subsidize the other 3 boats that are going, just because those people don't want to buy a raft suitable for the Canyon.

On the other hand, I would never dream of "renting" my blaster out to a trip that I'm on. There's a middle ground of reasonableness between the two extremes of itemizing every piece of my equipment on a depreciation schedule and charging the trip for usage, and me paying for somebody else to rent a raft for them to row.

Look at it this way: Instead of calling it a credit for someone who has their own boat, call it a cost for one who doesn't. Say that if you're going to come on a trip, you and your SO need a boat. Buy it, borrow it, or rent it- I don't care, but I don't want to pay for it if I've already bought my own. And yes, I've lent out my big boat, and I've brought second rafts for others on trips, and no, I didn't charge any rent.
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Old 08-06-2016   #23
 
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page, Arizona
Paddling Since: 2014
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thats $300 dollars in additional costs to help get your 'group' down the river... this is how i look at it. without the other rental boats your trip doesn't launch....
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Old 08-06-2016   #24
 
Aurora, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2000
Join Date: Apr 2006
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Originally Posted by azpowell View Post
thats $300 dollars in additional costs to help get your 'group' down the river... this is how i look at it. without the other rental boats your trip doesn't launch....
So, out of curiosity, does your group pool fuel receipts and split all travel evenly? I mean, if you're driving to the Ferry from Page, and I'm driving from Denver, we ought to split the fuel so that the group can get down the river? My brother's flying in from NYC to Flag, then getting a taxi to the put-in, so we split that, too?? Obviously I don't think that's reasonable, but my point is that there are some expenses that are reasonable to allocate less than 100% equally.

Nobody wants to look at the additional costs that boat owners take on. (And they can be substantial.) I'm not asking that the group pay me for my boat or my gear- quite the opposite. I'm asking that other group members act the same way I do: buy a nice boat that carries a lot of crap and bring it on all our trips, or, pony up and rent one.

Think of another example: group ski trip. Two of your buds don't own skis, but you do. You split the lodge, and the shuttle bus, and food at the place, and the heli drop evenly. But they have to rent skis, while you've owned yours a couple years. Should you split their ski rental with them?
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Old 08-06-2016   #25
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Boise, Idaho
Paddling Since: 2000
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Originally Posted by Aerocam View Post
Same here. We usually have big trips maxing out our permits. I have two boats and I will bring them both if needed. A friend rents rafts from his shop. He brings one for free and if we need more, he'll bring them and get credit at a discount rental rate, (those boats could be making money somewhere else).

Whatever costs to make the trip happen are split. Just did a full Rogue trip for $140 per person including dinner and a house at Galice after the trip. Pretty cheap for four days on the water with my best friends.

I'm sure it could be done cheaper, But we're on vacation!!
you can't get one night in a decent hotel for $140.. that's a good price for a trip, we're doing $200 per person for a main salmon, and we all expect a little change at the end of the trip, nobody on the trip bitching about gear or supplies. we're all just excited to spend a week on a beautiful river for only $200
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Old 08-07-2016   #26
 
boulder, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1999
Join Date: Aug 2009
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It can be a little more complicated. A buddy of mine and I split a groover for our use $300. Our group expanded and we needed to buy an extra insert for $210. He didn't want to spend the dough merely for others to use. I suggested that we charge people a few bucks each trip to prevent having to rent another system. They would be paying for one anyone so we started charging a $2/person for weeklong trips. It has almost been paid off and I will stop charging. I guess it depends if people pay up when group gear gets lost or damaged. My experience is that people do not volunteer to reimburse.
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Old 08-07-2016   #27
 
Jackson, Wyoming
Paddling Since: 2011
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 35
I just spent a majority of the winter and spring to get a full set up for rafting. That is money that I willingly spent now, in the hopes of saving some later. That said, I can't imagine charging my friends a rental fee for utilizing a groover that I deemed necessary to have in my gear pile.

Food, Permits, Additional rentals I think are how things should be split. Do we need another boat rental, likely if you are asking this question, you need it to carry people/gear/beer and that cost should be shared between the group. Why should I have to pay too? Easy, because I love my friends, and I would rather split the cost and see them on the river, then send them away because I can't eat a little more of the cost.

I just view my personal group gear as an investment towards having a good time. No one made me do it, and I don't need to nickel and dime anyone because I chose to have a lot of nice stuff.

That said, if you show up to the boat ramp with an under estimated supply of beer, we may have issues, but I bought this stuff for me.
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Old 08-08-2016   #28
 
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lafayette or Grand Lake, Colorado
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When I am invited on a trip I send the TL my list of gear and equipment and ask them to tell me what they want me to bring . I then tell them what I can carry on my boat and what someone else will need to pack. I can fill 2 boats with group gear but only row one. Never expect or want a dime for bringing the most gear when it happens, just help in getting it down stream. I like to split all shuttle driver $, tips, shuttle gas and permits equally between all participants. Getting to the put in and home not a shared $. Food split equally, none of the I eat less, my kids eat less or I am a vegetarian arguments. Coffee, juice, tea is a group $. Always BYOB, pop and etc. The KISS approach is what I strive for.
Since I have enough gear to outfit a trip of 16 for the grand canyon with the exception of personal gear and boats, I will not go if asked to share rental costs. At that point I feel I'm helping pay for someone else's way.
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Old 08-08-2016   #29
 
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Niwot, Colorado
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I see a lot of responses that mention food splits. I've always just divided the meals of for all my trips (other than the grand) and not reconciled total food costs for each person.

Recently, I've done it so I weight dinner as a 1 and breakfast as a 1/2. Seems to work and avoids the challenge of collecting receipts, food costs etc.

Do most people average out all the food costs or just divide up meals?
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Old 08-08-2016   #30
 
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seattle, Washington
Paddling Since: 1983
Join Date: Feb 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Read_N_Run View Post
I see a lot of responses that mention food splits. I've always just divided the meals of for all my trips (other than the grand) and not reconciled total food costs for each person.

Recently, I've done it so I weight dinner as a 1 and breakfast as a 1/2. Seems to work and avoids the challenge of collecting receipts, food costs etc.

Do most people average out all the food costs or just divide up meals?
We've done it both ways and I've found that with our group it works either way. We are lucky enough to have an accountant who rows and she takes on the finances. Everyone sends in their receipts for the entire trip and she works it out. She sends everyone a bill at end of the trip and then we all send what we owe. Then a couple weeks later we get a little check in the mail. Works fine. And sometimes we go with the divide meals method. Our group always tries to one up the other kitchen crews in a very friendly game of who can bust out the most amazing meals. This encourages everyone the treat their friends to an awesome dining experience. Because of this, it's works to have each KC pay for their meals. It would kinda suck if everyone came to the game with steaks or lobster tails and then one crew presented spaghetti with a little ragu. I think it just depends on how your crew likes to roll.
As far as splitting other costs, I say volunteer your personal group gear if you want. Don't volunteer if you don't want to. When it comes to raft rental, that's a little trickier. Depends on who's got the permit and whether the rental was actually essential to pull off the trip. If you're the permit holder and just busted out 10K for a raft, I'd have a hard time looking you in the eye and asking you to share the cost of my raft rental so I can join your trip as the 5th raft. I'd feel kinda cheap.
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