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GC takeouts revisited

8K views 40 replies 18 participants last post by  Electric-Mayhem 
#1 ·
The previous threads were too old to reply too.

I'm weighing the pros and cons of DC vs Pearce Ferry takeouts.
In one of the old threads it was brought up that you get a tribe member as a mandatory shuttle driver for the diamond creek final leg.
Is this true, do they make your driver from RRshuttle ride shotgun while a local takes the wheel?

There are lots of different ways to run a GC shuttle, getting your personal vehicles to DC looks like the most expensive way.

We are also looking at having personal vehicles taken to Pearce, only $310 from RRshuttle per truck

have not ruled out splitting the shuttle up and getting trucks taken to flagstaff and then get shuttled back to flagstaff in a van with a truck trailer too.

Lots of great info on the Buzz about how to make a succesful nightfloat to Pearce.
 
#2 ·
Never heard the tribe driver thing sounds like bs. But the do charge for every person taking out and every driver coming in and every vechicle.
After taking out a pearce Im over the dc take out. The first day after dc is still a realy nice float. The last day out sucks but I'd rather deal with that then dc.
As far as the van truck combo if you have a small group with few boats it works. Its alot of work to load unload then reload all your stuff.
 
#3 ·
I live West of Flagstaff along I 40. I can attest to how much work it is to load up a couple rigs, cram every smelly body in a few cars, and drag the whole works back home, and reshuffle. It is WAY cheaper however. We have used River Runners Shuttle a few times. They have never furnished an Anglo driver, so I always assumed they were Native owned. I have no other evidence of this nor do I really care one way or the other. They have always done Exactly as they said they would and nothing else matters to me. RE pearce vs Diamond... a Diamond Down is a fair little trip in itself. A few nice rapids... you do have to navigate a few sand bars and Hualapai Hell.... but the Canyon continues in beauty right up to past the Grand Wash Cliffs...

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#4 ·
Taking out at DC costs at least $1,000 which will more than pay for 2-3 or even 4 extra days. Shuttle from Pearce costs the same, takes about the same amount of time, and is paved all the way to Flag.

The lower stretch is beautiful and offers continued quality side diversions. Camps are a little limited in the last 40 river miles or so and it would be nice to have another option or 2. The night float is a viable option, but don't underestimate it's difficulty. The silt banks and choppers are just reminders that you are heading back to civilization. There is also something to be said for floating out of Grand Canyon.

So my math takes me to Pearce, but I know there are some trade-offs for doing so.
 
#5 ·
Don't forget to factor in wear and tear of two trips on Diamond Creek Rd on truck and trailer. Plus, depending on time of year, the road can be washed out after storms for a few days. I have never finished a GC trip and not wished for just a few more days.
 
#6 ·
The shuttle from Pearce is NOT "...paved all the way to Flag." The first 22 miles (I think) are dirt, but they're MUCH better than the DC road. After that it's 70 miles on into Kingman, then 144 into Flag - all paved.
I would NEVER have my personal vehicle driven into Diamond - and I regularly drive it into Sand Wash, Mineral, etc. That road is in another league, and if you go too fast, you WILL have problems. Paying an outfitter for DC takeout works well but is expensive - the only reason to do so is time constraints.
We used RRS in May, they were easy to work with and rigs were at Pearce when we arrived. Norm Montgomery started RRS, I believe his son Wes is still involved, most drivers were or are retirees from Meadview. Norm used to do lake pickups (when there was a lake, but Coast Guard compliance got too expensive and cumbersome and he stopped back in the late 80's/early 90's.
 
#8 ·
RR shuttles drop the cars and leaves - no rides needed.

I'll never take out at DC again. Taking out within sight of a rapid in the middle of a granite gorge is a major bummer. There are still quite a few good rapids and hikes left after Diamond - travertine canyon is one of my favorite places anywhere in the grand.

I've done the night float twice, and it is enjoyable. Never had issues bumping or getting hung up. It is pretty spectacular if you have a full moon.
 
#9 ·
Most people seem.to like to take out at Pearce but I cant stand that stretch. Camps are lower quality, flow is odd, and the helicopter affect is pronounced. It costs more $ to go out at Diamond but its worth ending in a high note as the human impact in the lower canyon is just not worth my time.

To each their own.
 
#10 ·
Forgive an educated question, but I've never (yet) been down the Grand. Is it possible to float unawares into Pearce Ferry rapid during a night float, or do the distances lead to it usually being encountered in the daytime. If the former, then I wouldn't sleep a second all night.

Thx. Jon
 
#17 ·
kind of a dick answer to an honest question

On my first trip down we were outfitted by Moenkoppi (sp) and were supposed to take out at diamond but the road was washed out. It didn't get fixed for 3 days and we had people trying to catch flights and such. 4 of our 8 person group walked out at Diamond and caught a ride back and their flights. The remaining 4 took 3 boats to pierce. We had to be there the next day for the shuttle so we had to float all night. In this unlikely scenario it would have been possible to miss the "boat ramp" which is just a rocky beach, as we arrived at 8 in the am and had no idea where we were until we saw a jet boat. We could have easily missed the take out if we had not pulled over about 3 miles up river and waited for first light to be safe. Its pretty beautiful down there but very flat and lots of helicopters. I would rather just take out at Diamond as we have done on all the rest of our trips, 2 since that first time. We were outfitted and didn't have to use our own vehicles for the shuttle though.

Another drawback for us which is very unlikely to happen to anyone else is that the only flip of out trip happened at fang falls just past diamond and getting the 18 foot boat back over in the canyon with no good pullouts spot was a pain in the ass with just 4 of us.

I hope you get that new dory down there soon. Best of luck
 
#13 ·
You shouldn't have any problems floating into Pearce Ferry rapid. You need to have at least one person awake at all times, and it is very obvious when you pass the Grand Wash cliffs and are out of the canyon.

I eat dinner and relax at Separation or Surprise Canyon, and then launch at a time that will ensure I'm still in the canyon when the sun comes up - I love seeing the transition at the Grand Wash cliffs. You can figure out the current speed in the section between the end of the rapids and Separation Canyon and do the math from there. At the 10K flow I've had lately it was about 10 hours of floating from Surprise Canyon to the takeout.

You see no helicopters doing a night float - well, except at Whitmore.
 
#14 ·
It's Pearce for me every time now, for reasons already mentioned. I'll never do a Diamond takeout again if I have another takeout choice at the canyon's end. Even if my whole group is going out at Diamond for some reason I'll go solo from there.


Next year I'm on a launch date that will give us an absolute full moon night float to finish the trip. We are certainly hoping the weather will cooperate with that plan.


It's nice to pass Diamond, get to a camp, then relax all day before leaving at about 6 pm or so for the night float (time based upon the river mile of the camp).


Jon - You've got to do some lousy, stupid ass planning to wind up at Pearce rapid in the dark. And, if I had known you've never been there I would have invited you to join us, rather than go to Lodore again!
 
#16 ·
Wife and I just got off at PF on the 7th. The rest of the group took out at DC with PRO hauling gear and peeps to Flag. On this trip, PRO did the food pack and everyone packed it on their boat. We helped de-rig everyone's boats before continuing on down.

We will never take out a DC. (Did it once on our very first trip, which was all PRO supplied gear and food.) The amount of work to de-rig, load the truck was a hell of a lot of work. The amount of work in Flag to unload and then load your vehicle had to be a bear.

When my wife first suggested us continuing on down, I was not immediately on board, but then we bought an outboard. Holy crap, that made a huge difference from Separation on down. It really is beautiful down there and the rapids are fun. Yes, camps are not a nice at LF down, but you're not competing with many folks for them. The helicopters area a bit of a pain, but the constant heli noise around LCR is getting worse as well.

Doing it again in April.
 
#19 ·
Humble apologies. I do have other things to do from time to time. I was trying to look up miles and divide by hours so I didn't give a useless answer.
Mr Black has shown me a camp that is just delightful and there are a few others. The Diamond Down section isn't my fav... but I won't pay a big fee to avoid it either.....

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#28 ·
Always a little hard to express my utter sarcasm online via text too.

That rapid is a BEAST, and I sure as shit wouldn't run it, especially at the level of my posted photo from July 2016. It is an absolutely deadly feature and DOES NOT wash out at higher levels. The eddy lines and boils are fierce beyond belief, the left wall is undercut and vicious, and hole itself is probably 25 feet deep, and the runout is brutally long with massive tail waves and disgusting currents which I wouldn't ever want to be a part of.

I have heard multiple horror stories of commercial and private trips running the rapid as it was developing and also running into the rapid (on accident) in the middle of the night. Stories of 37ft. motor rigs flipping, getting thrashed in the boils and eddies behind the huge island rock, getting short-lined out by NPS, etc... enough to make you never consider running the rapid. I checked it out both in July and in August this season and saw NO LINE; and the rapid looked drastically different both times, albeit only a month a part. The terrain and features on this portion of river are dynamic beyond belief and are changing at a frightening pace. I believe there will be a catastrophic collapse of the land on the river left sometime in the near future, as evidenced from the massive sink holes and quickly eroding left bank.

In my opinion, Pearce Ferry Rapid is deadly and makes all other rapids upstream pale in comparison.
 
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