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GC rapids I can't avoid?

21K views 74 replies 45 participants last post by  Jamie D. 
#1 ·
Hi folks,

We have an April trip and a few folks are wondering which rapids have no options for passengers to hike around? My very limited research has led me to believe that Grapevine and Sockdolager cannot be avoided. What are the other bigger rapids in the Grand Canyon that have bad hiking or pickup options?
 
#35 ·
Friends of mine had a lady on a recent Grand Canyon trip that had a early in the trip swim. The swim experience made her very uncomfortable and she walked out at Phantom Ranch. Took the trip T/L most of the day to make arrangements with the rangers for a spot for her in one of the Ranch's cabins that night and arrangements for the hike out. Which means this T/L might do some pre trip work just in case a Phantom hike out is asked for.
 
#37 ·
On our first GC trip in '06, my wife said that if she wasn't comfortable with a particular rapid, she was going to walk it. After what was our most epic swim in "Lost Paddle" on the Gauley, I wasn't going to try to dissuade her. After the first couple of days, she never even considered it.

On our '09 trip we had a woman that was nervous about big rapids. The only one she decided to walk was Lava. After we all ran it and picked her up, she said that she wished she had "stayed in the boat".

With some folks, just having the option is comforting.
 
#38 ·
I think by now you know how we feel around here about the idea of planning to walk around the rapids. You've gotten some sage advice and all I can add is to be on your game by House Rock rapid. That one will get a lot of people. Camp early on day one so you hit it your second day so you're rested and broken in a bit. Pull hard across the tongue toward the right and stay off the left wall. Also, be wary of Mile 209 rapid--that hole on the right sucks you towards it more than you realize and it is a mean SOB. It is often the little ones and the "scetchy sevens" then get people in the big ditch.

PS. I sincerely hope the nervous nellie is not your permit holder!
 
#42 ·
... be on your game by House Rock rapid. That one will get a lot of people. Camp early on day one so you hit it your second day so you're rested and broken in a bit.
It's worth noting that House Rock tends to be easier at high water (aka. afternoon, that close to the dam); I've been on one trip with experienced boaters, but GC newbies, where we pushed hard the first day, to hit HR late, and then camped at North Canyon (good camp, great hike). If you camp early on day 1, you're likely to be hitting it at low water; just sayin' ...
Also, be wary of Mile 209 rapid--that hole on the right sucks you towards it more than you realize and it is a mean SOB. It is often the little ones and the "scetchy sevens" then get people in the big ditch.
Easy to let down your guard after Lava. I've seen people get slammed into the right wall at 205 and taco the boat; and a woman died in 209 last year. As far as "sevens", yes, I've known GC boatmen who've never flipped in Lava or Crystal, but flipped in stuff like Upset and even Tanner.
 
#39 ·
My wife took a bad swim earlier in the trip, and decided to walk Lava. Because of the higher water we scouted and she portaged on the left. When she finally made it to the boats she was bruised and cut up from many prickly plants and rocks. She would never make that portage again. Especially after seeing all of our boats upright at the bottom.
 
#41 ·
Can she try a smaller river first, like the San Juan? I know if the Grand were my first, I would not still be a "Bow Cow" (ha ha,). I am an average size woman, but it does help my rower if I can stay hunkered down in the front when we hit the big hits and holes. I would not want to be in front if fear was a big factor for me. But, I also understand fear, and how it can grow on you if you get into something beyond your control. I have felt this sort of fear mountain biking, taking a fall at the start of the ride, and not gain it back again until a few days later. If this person can get a "mother in law" ride from a very experienced rower, staying dry and safe on a big boat, she might do ok.....
I agree that hiking around rapids is very hard. I have only done a few, and that was only to do a hike we missed upstream, or wanted to do that was just below camp and below a rapid. Trails in the Canyon can be hard of their own, but just doing the rocks and those bushes that grab you and rip up your skin....not for me!


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#44 ·
I did a trip in 2012 where the permit holder's wife was terrified the entire trip. She had plenty of river experience, but was not able to wrap her head around being on a three week river trip in December with that size of water. She didn't relax until after Lava.

She was perfectly pleasant the whole trip (a testament to her personality for sure), but she was miserable. Point blank she should have stayed home.

If only we could have kept the two guys who were clucking like chickens the whole way down the river as quiet as her. Damn chicken cluckers!

Kyle
 
#45 ·
Damn Chicken Cluckers indeed! Silence can be a virtue down there. Yeah, I forgot about the tide timing when mentioning House Rock earlier. More water is more better there. I haven't had a problem pulling across the tongue and just missing the rocks on the right, but it is a dicey move. Perhaps it is better to be a little tired and have more favorable conditions. Most important is simply to be aware it is there and worth your attention.
 
#46 ·
I think it would make even more of a difference in a hard-hulled boat, though I hear of a dory driver that has run the far left slot against the wall... But maybe that is just another boatmen story, which as we know are like most fisherman's stories, factually-based tales woven to absurd proportions...
 
#47 ·
Two things:

First, I love how most of us automatically assumed that the problem passenger is a female. Most women are tougher than men anyway. I'd like to take the time to reference Betty White here. "Why do people say grow some balls? Balls are weak and sensitive! If you really wanna get tough, grow a vagina! Those things take a pounding!"

Second, I don't think the OP has responded at all as to why anyone would have the desire/necessity to walk around the rapid.

Perhaps someone is afraid of water.
Or waves.
Or rafts.
Can't swim?
Worried about sharks?
Maybe they're concerned about getting a Quagga infestation!
Surely, not just because she's a female. Right? RIGHT???? :confused:
 
#49 ·
Nope...

First, I love how most of us automatically assumed that the problem passenger is a female. Most women are tougher than men anyway. I'd like to take the time to reference Betty White here. "Why do people say grow some balls? Balls are weak and sensitive! If you really wanna get tough, grow a vagina! Those things take a pounding!"
That shit was seriously funny!!! I've always loved Betty, but I've never heard that! Betty White for President!
 
#51 ·
Thanks guys... sometimes I feel weak and sensitive myself... then I realize I don't have balls so I don't need to feel that way... but I still portage anyway :D

Sometimes I also make really bad jokes and the only one laughing is me... super excited I'm not the only one laughing out loud in my little cubicle today.

Don't encourage it though...
 
#52 ·
I already forwarded that one on to my wife! She's on a girls surfing trip in Nicaragua so I'm guessing it'll get lots of mileage there!!!

You two would get along great I'm guessing, very similar humor! Including your "Jerry Rigging" comment a couple weeks ago...
 
#53 ·
My wife is a tough woman; I mean, she puts up with me.

She was good all the way down to Lava. When we scouted Lava I took the decision out of her hands and told her she should walk it, cause, you know, we were riding with and at the mercy of a rookie boatman determined to run Lava despite having demonstrated an amazing lack of talent up to that point. But, his boat, his call.

The run was fine, although at one point rookie boatman was almost tossed out; only a death grip on an oar saved him.

Wife has always regretted being talked out of running Lava. The walk around on the right isn't a hard one; lord knows, enough people have marked the trail.

There are rapids that can't easily be walked around; Crystal isn't difficult but that is one long damn walk. Sockdolager and Grapevine are very difficult to scout, I doubt one could walk around in less than half a day.

I'm with the consensus; if someone is questioning running those big bad rapids, it may be that they aren't ready for the Grand and maybe need to rethink it.

We all have our doubts getting to Lee's. Overcoming them is part of the adventure.

And besides, I always said; anyone too scared of a rapid is also probably going to make an issue of a bug in their eggs and poop inna can.
 
#55 ·
Not sure about the Clymb deals but it's called Chica Brava... Yeah, she's not typically an ocean person either but it was part of what the other girls wanted to do, so why not I guess... Definitely surfing/yoga and partying... Chica Brava as a facebook page, if you're interested I know our boys were really excited to see mom on the internet surfing and it looked pretty warm
 
#58 ·
Holy Shit Phil, that seems like an awfully dramatic response. I believe the common sentiment is that it might turn into a logistical nightmare if the scared person needs to walk every rapid that makes them nervous. I could be wrong, but I don't think anyones trying to limit anyone else's journey.
Shannon
 
#59 ·
No drama intended, very calmly written on my part. The response was mostly about the intention related to rafting that "If one doesn't like to hike, don't sign on for a thru-hike of the AT" as if there aren't diverse ways to approach an expedition of a 220+ mile river corridor.

I will say the theme of "she shouldn't go" had popped up several times. Someone even went as far as recommending any walker wear full body protection. I just think 6 pages of people saying mostly the same thing ignores the specificity of the OP's question. I mean how many people actually answered that question directly? I have gone back to look a few times and it seems like a small minority to me. Here a few highlights that support my concern an might hinder the conclusion that no one is "trying to limit anyone else's journey":

You have to run all of them. It is the price, and the pleasure, of a trip down the Colorado.
Forgive me if I'm being ignorant or insensitive to a disabled person, therapy dog, child, war hero, or anyone that for some really good reason cannot ride along for the rapids; but I believe that the collective sentiment of those who have gone before you is this: don't be a pussy.
This is never safer than riding in the boat would have been. If you're the trip leader, it's your responsibility to make these decisions. Don't let your people hike around rapids.
Why would you raft the Colorado if you aren't into rapids? There are lots and lots of rapids down there. That's like being afraid of heights and taking a trip up El Cap!
Any walkers would need some form of walking assist like a paddle or heavy walking stick, good rib and thorax protection like a full wrap PFD, and a good helmet that includes jaw protection.
I do worry about how when we pile on this way we scare away people vulnerable enough to actually ask for specific insight. Its all too common on these outdoor forums for people to lurk a ton and post a little. I learn a lot from this forum but I know I could learn a lot more if folks who expressed an educated and skilled interest weren't bombarded the way they often are.

I will also say I struggle seeing how this called out as dramatic and folks like RanDaddy's rather vile and contemptuous statements are either openly supported or ignored. I didn't even bring it up until MT4Runner co-opted my phrase. Its an issue near and dear to me because I have seen countless people scared away from not only these forums but also partaking in adventures themselves.

Phillip
 
#60 ·
What a great conversation this has become,

Thank you Soggy Tortillas for pointing out that I never brought up gender in this conversation, at least I don't think so...most of the women I know are tougher than me.

Phillip brings up a great point, at this stage I am just collecting information. We can decide that everybody must run all of the rapids later, or perhaps we can provide individuals with an informed opinion and let them make their own decision.

Thanks everyone for lots of great information and insight as to people's personal experience's, which is why we use this forum. Peace
 
#61 ·
My family and I went down the GC last August with a great group and had a blast. My fifth trip and my wife and daughters first. My wife came very close to walking out at Phantam even though we'd had no issues in the rapids. Even though they had been down the rogue a couple of times, the main salmon and we'd done a solo boat run down Ruby-westwater, she really had now idea what big water trips were like. Hitting the lower holes in Hance showed her. They were big hits that I couldn't avoid in a loaded 17' Avon at that level.

She changed her mind and we had great runs the rest of the trip as well. I really thought that she would walk Lava, but nope, she never hesitated (she didn't scout it with us). And that was after watching 3-4 flips in our group above Lava. Their only real complaint was that the trip was a bit long -- but then they're city girls.

My advice regarding those that are hesitant to run rapids: don't have them scout it with you, and stay cool and level headed when discussing the runs and what you want them to do in big rapid situations.




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#62 ·
My advice regarding those that are hesitant to run rapids: don't have them scout it with you, and stay cool and level headed when discussing the runs ...
This reminds me of an amusing story told by a boatman on a recent Grand trip. He was on his first Grand trip, relatively inexperienced, and had a newbie passenger along. He was a little nervous when they got to Lava and told her "let me see what I think when we scout it, and you can decide if you want to walk". Heading up to the scout, he was pretty far ahead and when he saw it he just sat down, muttering "f*ck, f*ck, f*ck ...". Apparently she came up behind him, heard that, and just turned around without even looking at the rapid - and ended up walking around.

I relate this for entertainment purposes only, and not to weigh in on the OPs question or the responses to it ...
 
#65 ·
Not to be flippant but it's very easy to miss them all. Don't go. The GC is a special trip and should be for those who love the river. If someone is asking about how to avoid the river it's the wrong trip for those people. Simple as that. There are many ways to enjoy the canyon - or another vacation.
 
#67 ·
I had a family once that told the 14 year old daughter that they were going on a "cruise" in order to get the girl on the trip with them. No, it did not turn out well. Mostly for the mom and dad. (since we are a bit off topic)

That is pretty f@cked up...

Conversely, If someone told me we were going on a GC trip and then I ended up on a cruise, I would never talk to them again!
 
#68 ·
In my experience with inexperienced people and big water, do not take someone who is not ecstatic about going. If someone is interested, But may be on over their head, start them on a mellow multi-day, so they learn to camp for days and travel on the river. Leave them wanting more. True that everyone experiences growth when pushed out of their comfort zone, you don't want them to hate you, the place, or the outdoors. One miserable person can affect everyone's experience and for most people, running the canyon is once in a lifetime
 
#72 ·
Poparazzi

One can definitely flip anywhere as seen last year at the Pariah Flip but for a good boatmen whose gf is nervous in the Bigs, here's one suggestion definitely not the gospel.

House rock is easy enough to walk around on the right side. And the bonus feature for the group is she can take some great photos from shore. The rest of the rapids up until Hance are harmless for a good boatmen in an 18 footer. Hance might be a good rapid to stay in the boat as the pullover can be tough but way doable for a strong rower with a downstream ferry angle if she feels the need. All things equal I would have her ride this one JIC. Through the gorge the rapids are read and run fun and fast and one might not have time to let their nerves get the best of them. Run them. Split the Horns at Horn creek and you significantly lessen the risk of flip. Granite is a read and run down the right side but if you camped there and wanted some great shots she could run the Photo op again from shore while one boat rows over to get her on shore. She has at least 4-5 chances someone will be able to eddy out there for her. Hermit could be another great photo op walk around. For a good boatmen Crystal can be easily sneaked down the right side. It will be a little boring for her boyfriend but big points for a late night eddy run that night, hee hee. Through the jewels I would encourage her to ride on because much like the gorge, the rapids are read and run fun with little consequence for an 18 footer/good boatmen. For Bedrock she could walk that on the right while everyone is scouting. If the boyfriend brought a ducky for her to the bottom she could ducky over to Bedrock with someone else and setup an exciting camera of the Bedrock runs. If she had the stomach for a tandem ducky to Bedrock that is . It’s a long shot but easy enough if she was into it. One could Plan to Camp at Stone Creek and drop her at the Galloway camp. While ya’ll are running Doobie she can look for some uniqe driftwood pieces and schnedel from the flood on the ¼ mile hike to stone creek camp, and get some good shots most do not see. Run upset on the left for the mellowest of runs short of the far right bump and grind down the shore. It’s not quite as easy as the Crystal bump and grind which is why I would say for the experienced boyfriend just run the left if you can talk her into it. She could hike Upset easily and get some good photos as well if she is dead set against. She can Hike around Lava on the right and setup next to the cheesegrater for some great shots of the group coming down the right side. The rest of the rapids until 231 & 232 are inconsequential for a good boatman and chances are she won’t have any problems. 231 is too long and heinous to hike around, I'd suggest boating it. Just don’t drop in the hole at the bottom center and your good. 232 is easy to walk around river right. Ran into a rattler one time hiking back up but he was easy to walk around. There’s a neat sneak on the left if she wants to ride this one as well. If shes a logical commonsensical person the Colorado river is a very safe river to swim for a healthy person as it is deep and foot entrapment is nearly impossible. Much safer than say the Arkansas. Drysuits make it even safer. High float vests even safer, Holes flush. etc. Walking around will be more dangerous than the whitewater but didn't the book "Death in the Canyon" liken the Dangers of running the Grand Canyon whitewater right up there with Bowling? Chances are she will be fine doing either if she is mildly athletic. Nothing I have said was meant to downplay the awesomeness and risk of the Colorado River, which is why I would bring my nervous gf in almost any circumstance") When the going gets tough...cuddle, deep hugs, kisses, maybe a backrub(don't forget the coconut oil), ear cones, be a good listener, more hugging, calm quiet soothing, chamomille, chicken soup in a thermos")
 
#73 ·
Some good advice here, but some is a little flippant - no pun intended :) ...
The rest of the rapids up until Hance are harmless for a good boatmen in an 18 footer.
Not sure how you define good, but I've seen a guy with four flip-less Grand runs under his belt flip at Badger.
Split the Horns at Horn creek and you significantly lessen the risk of flip.
That's always been my impression too. Not sure why people sometimes don't, maybe water levels other than the ones I've seen ?
The rest of the rapids until 231 & 232 are inconsequential for a good boatman and chances are she won’t have any problems.
Saw a guy taco his boat into the right wall at 205 and get trapped under it briefly. Knew a woman who drowned at 209.
If shes a logical commonsensical person the Colorado river is a very safe river to swim for a healthy person
Tell that to the Outside editor, a varsity swimmer for 4 years in college, who suffered a cardiac arrest during a Lava swim.
 
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