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GC itinerary

7K views 32 replies 14 participants last post by  Electric-Mayhem 
#1 ·
Looking for comments on this GC Itinerary, If it seems to make good use of time on river and hits good hikes along the way.
what would you change? April Trip

Day 1 launch camp: soap creek or hotnana
Day 2 roaring 20’s camp: 30.3 or other maybe hike at shinumo wash (silver grotto) mile 29.2 river left
Day 3 camp Buck farm or eminence 41 or 44 Vaseys, redwall
Day 4 camp nankoweap 52
Day 5 Tanner 69 LCR
Day 6 Grape vine 81
Day 7 Monument Camp 93.5 river left across from granite rapid
Day 8 Bass Camp hike 108.1 shinumo wash hike
Day 9 Bass Camp 108
Day 10 122.7 forster canyon Elves Chasm 116.5 hike
Day 11 Deer Creek camp deer creek hike
Day 12 Deer Creek camp 136 deer creek hike
Day 13 Kanab creek camp Kanab creek hike
Day 14 ledges camp 151 MaTcat hike
Day 15 camp at national 166 havasu hike/ tuck up hike
Day 16 Camp around Hells Hollow 183 Run Lava at 179
Day 17 Camp at 194
Day 18 camp at 209 Hike parashant
Day 19 camp at 220 or 222
Day 20 tie up and float at separation 239
Day 21 Takeout AM after nite float to Pearce Ferry
 
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#4 ·
Hi,

Sounds great. But don't forget you will be sharing those same camps and attractions with both commercial and private trips launching around the same time.

The Park puts out information about the importance of communication between groups. Along with a flexible mindset, talking to others on the river really is necessary to smooth out the inevitable frictions about who camps where, when, and for how long.

Doing that is an important piece of trip leadership -- one that will contribute not only to trip harmony, but to everyone's enjoyment of the Canyon.

FWIW.

Rich Phillips
 
#5 ·
Be aware that Grapevine is reserved for groups doing Phantom exchanges. I don't know if that is your case.
April is starting to get busy with the commercials starting to run some trips. You have some prime camps planned so be flexible and have backup camps in mind. You are allowed 21days to Diamond so squeeze another layover in if you can. The motor trips will be starting to catch up with you in the latter part of the month so expect the lower camps to busy. It can be pretty windy as well so get on early if you want to hike.
 
#6 ·
Great feedback guys! Thanks for the reminder to be flexible and communicate.

and I did not know about the grapevine camp, we do not have any people exchange there. Will need to find another camp.

Making some big miles in the lower canyon and spending more time in the inner gorge is also great advice, thanks

I'm not the TL on this one, but trying to do a bunch of the prep work to help my TL have a smooth trip.

I wish I could invite some of you
helpful buzzards but I'm just stoked to be getting the invite my self.
 
#7 ·
One of my most memorable experiences was hiking up to Thunder River, then over to Deer Creek canyon while half the group floated from Tapets Creek to Deer Creek ( a whopping 1/2 hour float, so almost a layover day). The hike was wonderful, and something I would highly recommend. Bring a water filter to get some more water before leaving Thunder River... That walk is hot!
 
#8 ·
I just noticed you have Kanab Creek listed as a camp. You are no longer allowed to camp at the creek mouth, the camp has been closed for some time. There is a small camp quite a ways downstream on the cobble bar that is still open for camping but it is a pretty lousy camp. You might want to camp at above Olo and day hike Kanab.
 
#9 ·
I'm still waiting on my copy of "day hikes from the grand", GCPBA book store operator is taking some time off.

Is the hiking from Bass Camp all technical canyoneering, or is there some moderate walking to be done in the creek?

Glad I shared my Itinerary ideas with the buzz crew, you have some great info to share.
 
#14 ·
The guide book lists Bass as having many hiking options, with at least a couple being easy, ranging up to difficult with some involving scrambling, on up to requiring rope. Have fun down there!!!
 
#12 ·
Second the suggestion to be prepared to change plans based on others. Very important. Exepct a lot of competition for Bass. Clear Creek is a very good (better..) alternative to Grapevine - nice hike. Day 15 sounds potentially big - why not camp at Tuckup? 2 camps there and a great hike
 
#13 ·
Can't go wrong with any itinerary. A few suggestions.

If the commercials beat you on launch day they often take Hot NaNa. The Roaring 20s goes quick, so it's not too difficult to make Shinumo or South from Soap or Hot Nana. Shinumo is nice to hit Silver Grotto. You can go long in South and rim out if you're hikers using the UPS route. Eminence is pretty sweet for hiking and worth spending time.

I'd pass on camping at Tanner. Unless it's cold and then I'd camp river right across from Tanner, but it shouldn't be too cold in April. Instead I'd aim for Cardenas or Rattlesnake. Very good hiking in both locations.

As others mentioned, if you're not doing an exchange you're out of luck for camping from below Hance down to Phantom. Cardenas, Rattlesnake or 75 mile are fine to run to below Phantom, but it can be tricky to get Granite. There are decent camps on river right around Trinity/91 mile that you might consider grabbing instead. Or if you get burned at Granite you'll have to run long. Crystal is an awesome camp with great hiking and would set you up for Bass Camp. If you're not sure if someone is in Bass Camp you can stop at the Ross Wheeler boat and hike downstream and look directly into Bass camp. Or you can grab Parkin's on river right and send someone down on foot to look.

I'd aim for Blacktail instead of Forster. Blacktail is a sweet camp, the main canyon is very pretty in that area and Blacktail Canyon is worth checking out. If Blacktail on the right is taken, try the lower on the left and there's another camp around 122 on river right that is nice. Galloway or Stone are a nice run from there and Stone is a nice camp if you like big beaches that get lots of sun. Otherwise, Talking Heads or Racetrack set you up well to hike up Tapeat to Thunder river and over to Deer Creek.

Tuckup is cool and worth a layover if you're a hiking group. There's some nice features up there worth checking out. Fern Glenn is a good camp. Once around Tuckup, or Fern Glen for sure, you can run below Lava without camping at one of the immediately above Lava camps.

Parashant is cool and if the temperature is nice it's worth hiking long to see the Temple Butte narrows.

I like to run slow above Lava and then do longer river days afterwards.
 
#17 ·
Making some changes to do longer days below lava, wondering what is the prefer camp in the 185 mile area. looks like 3 large camps in that area, any favorites?

Here is an adjusted version, following some of your suggestions.
thanks again buzzards

Day 1 launch camp: soap creek 11.3 or hot-nana 16.4 ( 11.3 mile day)
Day 2 camp nautiloid 30.9 (silver grotto) mile 29.2 river left
Day 3 camp Buck farm or eminence 41 or 44 Vaseys, redwall
Day 4 camp nankoweap 52 (maybe go down to kwagunt, after a hike 56.6
Day 5 Cardenas 71.6 or Rattlesnake 74.6
Day 6 91/ or trinity have to get below Phantom
Day 7 Crystal 98.7 – good setup for scoring bass camp
Day 8 Bass Camp hike 108.1 shinumo wash hike
Day 9 Bass Camp 108
Day 10 Camp at Blacktail 120.6 right Elves Chasm 116.5 hike
Day 11 Deer Creek camp deer creek hike
Day 12 Deer Creek camp 136 deer creek hike
Day 13 above Olo?
Day 14 ledges camp 151 MaTcat hike
Day 15 camp at Tuckup 165.2 havasu hike/
Day 16 Camp Tuckup 165.2 tuck up hike layover
Day 17 Camp at 185
Day 18 camp 198.8 parashant Hike parashant
Day 19 camp at 220 or 222
Day 20 tie up and float at separation 239
Day 21 Takeout AM after nite float to Pearce Ferry 280
 
#19 ·
Can't go wrong. A few minor points. Nautoloid is below Redwall Cavern. It's a nice camp with pretty Redwall around it. I like camping there.

Blacktail to Deer Creek is a bit of a haul. If you camp across from Deer Creek there is tons of stuff to be done, but it doesn't set you up for the Tapeats, Thunder River, Surprise Valley, Deer Creek shuttle loop that is really well worth doing. To do the loop you have to break into people who want to row down to Deer Creek and who want to hike. The rowers take the boats to Deer Creek, drink beer and hang out on the patio. The hikers hike overland to meet them at Deer Creek ~6 hours later. A fantastic hike.

Deer Creek to Ledges is a reasonable day. But I think you had Kanab on your earlier itinerary. You cannot camp there anymore. The hike to Whispering Falls is really worth it. So if you're a hiking group it would be really cool to do the day after Deer Creek and run to Olo.

Tuckup has a significant wall to climb about a half mile upstream on creek right that will spook some climbers. It's slipper with a high penalty. If you have skittish climbers they'll like a handline. It's worth it though because there is a conglomerate arch midway and the Shaman's panel is reachable with a long day.
 
#22 ·
Rob, What date do you launch? We launch on 4/26. Small group. We plan on the full 21 days to DC and plan on hiking as much as possible ourselves. We are not doing the overnight float, but will motor down to the beach camp above PF the day after DC. Take out the following day.

On our first GC trip, Tapeats camp was available. We did a layover there and everyone hiked up to Thunder River. My wife and I did a loop hike over to Deer Creek and came back up to camp on a trail above the river. It was great hike. When we got up on the bench above the patio and saw our rafts waaay upstream, damn they looked far away. :) Too bad that option doesn't exist today.

Since then, on two occasions we were able to get Across from Deer Creek Camp for layovers. If it was going to be a hot day, we'd get up at 6am and crossed over to Deer Creek and then hike thru Surprise Valley to Thunder River. A very enjoyable hike. About 6-1/2 hrs round trip. Take a filter for water at TR. I have to admit we didn't filter or treat water at TR and survived just fine.

Have a great trip!
 
#23 ·
<SNIP>
On our first GC trip, Tapeats camp was available. We did a layover there and everyone hiked up to Thunder River. My wife and I did a loop hike over to Deer Creek and came back up to camp on a trail above the river. It was great hike. When we got up on the bench above the patio and saw our rafts waaay upstream, damn they looked far away. :) Too bad that option doesn't exist today.

<SNIP>
You could still do similar loops by camping at Racetrack. You can get up on the ledges there and hike into the back of Tapeats.

Used to love camping at Tapeats, but it was kinda weird to camp in a creek mouth.
 
#24 ·
Be prepared for the possibility of your itinerary to be completely blown up on the first day. My last Grand Canyon trip in April we fought terrible wind the first couple days - hard all day rowing to get to Badger on day 1 and then North Canyon on day 2. The itinerary I had put together was nothing more than a source of amusement after that.

If you rig your boats so people can sleep on them the small camps become a lot more doable for a group that size. Camps like Clear Creek and Trinity are great, but would be a really tight squeeze for a group that big.

I've never seen Bass camp open - if you want it get there super early in the day, and even then it is used as a layover so often than your chances are even at best. Granite camp is also hugely popular because it is the best big camp just below Phantom, which means everyone wants it.
 
#25 ·
So true Andrew.:( I don't think we've ever had so much fine sand inside the tent as on the first day at Badger. The last evening, after you guys did the night float was almost as bad. I thank our luck stars that we had a tail wind(gale force at times) from Surprise to the beach above PF.
That's why we bought an outboard this year.
 
#26 ·
If this is your first trip in Grand Canyon be aware that it's hard to do everything on every trip. There just isn't time to do all the hikes, cook, clean up, rig, de rig, and row down the river no matter how organized the group.


It may be better to plan on some of the classic hikes mentioned above and actually have time to relax, maybe even have a second cup of coffee one morning.


Most people have no idea of how much work is involved in logistics on a Grand Canyon trip. I sometimes count myself lucky if I have time to brush my teeth in the morning, especially if I have to cook that day.


I have seen more conflicts over unmet expectations on Grand trips than any other factor. Pace yourself and enjoy the experience, don't suffer burnout half way through the trip as I have witnessed more times than I care to.
Beware the dreaded day 13 meltdown!


For making small camps work, cots really help, let the tent people set up and then throw your cot down in any available space.
Have fun, be safe, slow down and enjoy the place.
 
#27 ·
My biggest problem with food planning on my last trip was too many damn cooked breakfasts, especially as the guy who carried the kitchen box on his raft. If I had my way, I'd reserve breakfasts needing a stove, pans and/or dutch oven for layover days only. I think it would almost be worth having a separate cold breakfast kit that had bowls and spoons, a coffee making system of your choice, and a basic dish washing kit.

Its amazing how long it takes to cook breakfast for even a small group sometimes. It kinda drove me nuts waiting for that whole process to get done every morning, when we could have just had some yogurt and granola or breakfast pastries or bagels and cream cheese or any number of fast and easy meals and get packed and on the river early and enjoy the day. If you plan it right, you can even pack the kitchen area up the night before and have it ready to load and go.

The other thing I'll agree with is going slow in the middle of the trip and try to enjoy the area between Nankoweep and Fern Glen. Once you get below Lava Falls, the side attraction part of the canyon diminishes and becomes better suited to longer "grind" days.

I've only done the trip once so far, and due to needing to keep to a schedule I hit the "greatest hits" spots like Silver Grotto, LCR (very muddy), Redwall Cavern, Shinumo Creek, Elves Chasm, Blacktail Canyon, Tapeats Creek, Deer Creek Havasu Creek and others. We spent the most time at Deer Creek and Havasu, but went out of our way to not rush any of them. For the most part we never really went more then a mile from river with Deer Creek being the only exception.

Especially if no one is hiking out, I'd say even pushing a bit up until Phantom so you can experience stuff between there and Lava at a more leisurely pace might be good. There is some amazing stuff above there, but a lot of the most iconic hikes and locations are downstream.

We went all the way to Pearce on my trip. I thought I was gonna hate the flat water section, but it was honestly an awesome way to end the trip. Its still a spectactular part of the canyon and the act of rowing through it was kind of zen for me despite getting buzzed by the Haulapai motor rigs and the commercial Jrigs hauling ass to get out of the canyon after dropping their customers off. Those were few and far between though, so you mostly have the place to yourself.

That is, until you round the bend into Quartermaster canyon and then everything changes. You'll have helicopters flying over literally every 60-90 seconds. I'd actually say its worth waiting to barge up until Quartermaster. That is what we did. All in all, we ended up going all the way from Travertin Falls camp to Pearce Ferry in one push, which ended up being about 50 miles. Previous to that, It think we did one or two 20ish mile days as the longest day.

We almost camped out right across from the boat ramps in Haulapai touristopia and I was so glad we didn't because we would have woken up to multiple flyovers. Instead, we barged up and floated to Pearce. It was interesting and filled with a bit of drama from people who were drinking a bit too much.

I guess that is my way of saying spend as much time in the most interesting part of the canyon. There is too much to do for personal politics stuff to matter as much.
 
#28 ·
"For making small camps work, cots really help"
This is true elsewhere, also. Commercially on the MFS for example, that's the biggest advantage of cots IMO. Boat sleeping is also a big help at small camps.


"Its amazing how long it takes to cook breakfast"
Ain't that the truth? On a 27 day December trip we did we knew that having hot breakfast was important to us, but also recognized that the length of day was going to make that tough. Our solution was to make 200 mini-quiches at home the size of a 4" tart pan. We vacuum sealed them in groups of 4. In the morning I set the coffee water to boil in a big stockpot. Once it was boiled, I chunked in 3 bags of quiche, and drew out enough water for the first french press batch, started coffee, and broke down the whole kitchen. Paper towel or paper plates to eat off of. Coffee press, a clean hot water pot and tabasco were the only things left out. We had hot breakfast and no dishes, save for the french press. I was surprised at how well the quiche crust held up to freezing and reheating. Surely there are some other things that would heat quickly like this, in hot water and vacuum bags, and be easy to eat with your hands. . .smallish breakfast burritos maybe?
 
#29 ·
more great advice, thanks Buzzards

our trip launches on April 18 and will be my 3rd. It's been 8 years since my last one
We have some first timers as well as some with several trips under their belt.

I've got a good feeling about our group, I think we may be able to avoid the day 13 melt down. I have seen it though, a few windy days and a hangover can bring out the worst in a person, lol.

Making plan changes on the fly will just have to be part of the routine I suppose. We are good communicators and easy going so I think we'll do just fine getting the camps we want, or the camp just downstream from the camp we want.

We have Ceiba lined up to do our food and some gear rental, I've done a PRO trip as well as an REO outfitted trip but thought we'd try out one of the new outfitters.

looks like we will be a trip of 14, with the last couple spots only opened to the ladies.
Gotta keep the M/F ratio at a reasonable level.
 
#30 ·
what did you guys use for propane on your last GC trip?
I cant recall what my group went through, but I've seen suggestions based on .33 or .25 pounds per person per day.

.33 means my group of 14 would bring 5 20# for 21 days.

seems excessive, but by how much?
 
#31 ·
We usually take 2 - 20# and one 11# for that size group. I like to use a separate bottle for the blaster so usually reserve the 11# for emergency use. If you have a lot of coffee drinkers or people that can't remember to turn off the blaster add another 20# and you will have plenty. Just remember to check your stove and tank connections and turn off the tanks after you are finished with the stoves. I use a Woodland blaster which is more efficient than the typical Partner you get from the outfitters.
 
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