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Dolores questions for anyone that ran in 2016

9K views 30 replies 21 participants last post by  rtsideup 
#1 ·
Looking to possibly do my first Dolores trip this year and first in 20 years for other folks in my group. Can anyone that ran it last year answer a few questions on conditions these days:

1) How frequent are decent campsites between both (a) Bradfield to Slickrock, and (b) Slickrock to Bedrock. From some of videos, tamarisk looks terrible, especially in (b).

2) What was the poison ivy like? Colorado Rivers & Creeks guide book says PI can be very bad on Dolores. However, PI was terrible on Main Salmon last year so curious if this is even worse or about same.

3) Anything suggestion on best way to ensure we don't miss scout for Snaggletooth?
 
#2 ·
I last ran Slickrock to Bedrock in 2008, two trips, and I don't remember the Tamarisk being that bad. I was solo and in a canoe so I didn't need but a small amount of space.

Campsites between Bradfield and Snaggletooth are fairly frequent and easy, it is an alpine forest river through much of that area.

It's tough to miss the scout for Snagg due to the prominent signs and the cable across the river with a sign hanging on it.

I took out below Snagg and drove back up the jeep road so I haven't been between Snagg and Slickrock.

I've been through Slickrock to Bedrocck in 1998 and twice in 2008 and don't remember ever seeing Poison ivy worth mentioning. Same for the upper section, but I was only through there in 2005.

Slickrock to Bedrock is one of my favorite runs in the area in a tripping canoe because it has lots of riffles that are interesting in an open boat, and you can bring your dog. What ever level you can kayak, I subtract 1 level for a loaded open canoe and 1 level for damned dog leaning out of the canoe trying to east every leaf floating by.

In a raft i would not really consider Slickrock to Bedrock a whitewater run. You could take a nap most of the day.
 
#5 ·
I last ran Slickrock to Bedrock in 2008, two trips, and I don't remember the Tamarisk being that bad. I was solo and in a canoe so I didn't need but a small amount of space.

Campsites between Bradfield and Snaggletooth are fairly frequent and easy, it is an alpine forest river through much of that area.
Um he asked about 2016... A LOT has changed in 8 years my friend.

I ran Bradfield to Bedrock last year. almost all camps are overgrown with something, grass if you are lucky, tamarisk or other if not. You need to be watching very carefully for potential camp sites. see a break in the reeds and what might be a flat spot. Check it out, could be your only option, especially early on below gypsum.

I don't think you will miss snag the sign is still there if I recall.
 
#4 ·
Per Slickrock-Bedrock section:
1) Didn't run Bradfield-Slickrock last year because of all the confusion about when the "dam people" were shutting off the water. I did run through Slickrock canyon last year and there appeared to camps here and there. Some of the trails leading to the camps were overgrown because of the minimal flows being released from McPhee reservoir upstream since 2011. Very little tamis' in this section so you have to pay attention and if it looks like it might be a trail to a camp it's probably worth checking out. It's mainly willow vegetation in this part of the river.

2) Didn't recall seeing much poison ivy; can't rule it out, but it is kinda high up for it to grow in this part of Colorado.
 
#7 ·
We ran Bradfield to Slickrock last year, and mania is exactly correct. The camps were overgrown with grass, tamarisk, and also PI. The Ivy wasn't bad (thick), but it was occasionally tough to spot with the rest of the vegetation being so healthy. The sign for snag was still there last season, and it was easy to spot.
 
#12 ·
Hey Mark, if you're asking about the Slickrock to Bedrock section, rating it as a III is being conservative imo. I've seen it at 1200 cfs (last year), and up to 6500 on more than a dozen trips. III- seems about right at higher flows in a couple of rapids. There are many possible camps on that section but as was mentioned, the willows have encroached into the old riverbed causing it to be narrower and faster, but adding some difficulty in finding/accessing some camps. The 2-3 miles above Coyote Wash saw heavy camp usage last year with any and all available areas used -- including countless spots that are not catalogued in the river maps. Don't assume you'll find any of the traditional spots in that area, I would take whatever is available as there are very few potential camps below that. We had to get creative on our last night.

Bradfield to Snaggletooth has many sites that are fairly easy to find/land. Below 3 mile rapids, there is still camps, just not as many.

Snaggletooth is the real deal IV and is walkable (or portage) on the left. At medium to high flows (1800 to 6500), I've always ran it starting at mid river and getting a couple of oar strokes in to pull left of the tooth at the bottom, and then pulling hard to get to the left eddy below to pick up passengers. Depending on the level, there are guard rocks/pour overs in the top of the rapid that can bump you off your line if you make the left pull too early above the 'tooth', leading to carnage, angst and stranded passengers.

On a side note. Hopefully, folks will use the required fire pans instead of building fire rings and causing river managers to implement further regulations such as requiring permits.
I say that because last year on the Salt, there were dozens of fire rings built on the pre season Salt according to Don Sullivan. Yep, dumbasses that were too lazy to bring or use one. There is some serious discussion by river managers to include February in the lottery now for the Salt.


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#10 ·
I ran the lower Dolores three times last year, twice from Bradfield to the pump station, and once from pump station to Slickrock.

The Bradfield stretch has campsites almost everywhere. Not too much is grown over other than willow which will probably look a lot different this year. PI was a big deal around Lake Canyon, and I had it all over me but luckily my kids escaped it somehow. I have a hard time believing you couldn't find a spot in this stretch, even on Memorial Day weekend. There are lots more sites than the guidebook indicates.

The Pump Station to Slickrock section is a different story. The river changes character in this stretch where you go from ponderosa forests down to the next environmental gradient, which I'm guessing used to be a ton of cottonwoods but is now mostly tamarisk stumps and cheat grass. There's a lot less shade to be had in this stretch, especially after Snaggletooth Rapid. Campsites are fewer and different in character than the upper stretch.

Last time I did the WSA stretch was 2011, so I don't know how it looks right now. The biggest concern I have heard from last year was boats getting pinned on Cottonwood strainers. The river is really braided once you enter Disappointment Valley as well as a good portion of Slickrock Canyon, and some of the remaining cottonwoods have come down. I scouted the upper section during the rising flows on a duckie before taking my family on it the next day. It was really cool being the first one down that stretch in years, even spooked a sow and her cub when I pulled over to pee.

If you're on facebook check out Rig to Flip, they generally have a lot of info about the D and recently loaded some videos of Stateline. Enjoy it and leave it better than you found it!
 
#11 ·
Also, it is almost impossible to miss the Snaggletooth scout. For one, there will probably be a menagerie of boats tied up there, and there's also a sign upstream about 1/4 mile warning you of the upcoming rapid. It was at 1,200 or so when I did it and it was really easy to get to the scout. High water of 4,000 will probably make that 1/4 mile go by a lot quicker, but will make Little Snag a lot less bumpy!
 
#14 ·
I ran it in 2016 at about 1000 cfs. As reported, the Snaggletooth scout is easy to see. For us, the bigger issue was Little Snag as at this water level we chock-stoned a raft and stranded a cat in mid current. There is good current in a narrow channel on far river left against the bank but we were past it before we saw it.

Camp sites were indeed a bit overgrown above and below the Ponderosa section but we did not encounter Poison Ivy.
 
#17 ·
Definitely closer to 2,000 than 1,000 for the upper stretch. I had a lightly loaded 14' oar rig and still pinballed all over little snag since I went first and didn't go far enough left. I would imagine 1,800 would be about ideal to get over that. Little Snag gave me more grief than Snaggletooth at 1,200, just because of the narrow left channel and that I didn't see it until I was just slightly too far right of it to move over. The Big Gyp to Bedrock Stretch was fine at 1,000 with a super loaded 13' in 2011, but with a 16' you would need to get fairly close to the wall at S Curve, which isn't really that big of a deal. If I got to pick and choose I would vote for fewer days at 1,800+ than more days at 1,000...
 
#19 ·
We paddled the whole thing last year from below the dam to Dewey bridge. What an awesome river! As mentioned the camps are very over grown so you'll be wishing that river flowed more often so the camps could be worn in a bit more. But hey, maybe it will flow more often and pretty soon the camping will be plentiful! Man I wish that were the case. If I was a rafter I'd bring a cot and low expectations for the quality of the beaches. Our best camp was on slick rock somewhere, so beautiful. We did scout Stateline rapid but at the flows we had it was easy IV if that...
 
#21 ·
I have a 13 ft AIRE Super PUMA with rowing frame. Thinking about running a stretch of the Dolores this weekend, April 1-2. I'm a newbie to a raft and frame. I've always been on a ducky.

Can the 50 mile bedrock-slickrock stretch be done in 2 days at ~1000 CFS?

I had this thought today, what if they shot off the tap while I'm in the middle?

Is it stupid to attempt this as a newbie? If so, which section of the Dolores should I try in 2 days?
 
#24 ·
I joined a group at Gypsum Valley since I had to work and couldn't make it for the whole Slickrock to Bedrock section. They did one night before me and we did one night while I was with them. One guy stayed another night but it was like a mile above the put in. It was super crowded down there, so we struggled to find a camp and ended up going much further down then we expected to but getting the miles in wasn't too hard.
 
#27 ·
Rrtulley:

I remember that in 2008 it was around 1500 for both trips. They were separated by maybe one, at most two, weekends. It was really easy in an open canoe at that level. The first trip I hadn't paddled an open boat in a while and I was alone so I lined at least one of the rapids just to be extra careful.

I paddled a MRC Freedom Solo in 2008 and an MRC Explorer in 1998. These are not specialized whitewater boats, but handle class II very easily. There is a lot of flat water and not much challenging whitewater so I don't think I would bring a specialized whitewater boat on that stretch unless I had run the stretch above in an open boat.

An Explorer, Guide, Freedom (tandem or solo), Legend, Tripper, or a boat of that ilk handles the rapids and the flats adequately. I grew up and sold boats in the Northeast in my youth so I am not familiar with Wenonah boats that are along that ilk, although I know they made some.

If you have a Setting Pole bring it along, this is an excellent stretch for Poling.
 
#28 ·
A group of us just got off the Slickrock-Bedrock section so thought I'd pass along some general beta, none of it breaking news, but it might help somebody out.

Standard class III water, mainly because of tight channels and the resulting swift and swirly currents as well as the prevalent undercuts in the riverside sandstone. The only real rapid in our estimation was Spring Canyon, and it wasn't particularly memorable either. One-holer was just an easily avoidable hole, La Sal didn't exist, and S-curve is just a sharp turn at 1200 cfs (but of course at the higher water levels that are forthcoming, these will get more rowdy and even dangerous). But the paddling, particularly in the upper stretch above Coyote Wash, is very fun for such a small river with basically no conventional rapids. The channel is heavily incised because of the dearth of sediment-laden loads over the last several years and as such is narrow, deep and swift, with many tight squeezes between large angular rocks or around undercut cliffs with weird eddies and shifting currents. Pinning is definitely a possibility in here, although unlikely if you don't get distracted by the scenery. And the scenery is distracting...because it is fucking awesome.

We stopped and checked out many "camps" listed in the guidebooks/maps, and frankly, if you're used to large sandy camps with room for five boats, 10 tents and a volleyball court, you might be slightly let down. Most the pull-ins had little room for more than a boat or two without involving some creative docking and/or willow-whacking. The camps themselves were mostly overgrown, with both larger willows and tammies at waterline, but also with dense groundcover, thorny bushes, weedy plants, cacti, etc. further in. I hate to admit it, but a river cot might have actually had a purpose on this trip. Cows have made their unfortunate mark at and below Coyote Wash. Much of the camps will likely improve with regular use between now and end of May, but I'd imagine some folks won't be able to resist getting a little proactive with their camp maintenance (just keep it minimal and respectful, please!)

Camps were crowded just inside the WSA to just below Bull, with about every obvious camp occupied, including the party camped with their dogs at the arch site and overhang at Mile 65. People spread out pretty good after that, and we didn't see another person for two days below Anderson Bend. However, we weren't on the crowded Friday to Sunday schedule that most everybody else was on.

Please bring the required firepan and also a fire blanket or two. Fire blankets are cheap. The fire hazard is pretty high at these overgrown camps...there really isn't much bare ground at all, and will be significantly less at higher water. And much of the ground cover is dry and crackly grasses and small shrubs that burn easily--a fire could get out of hand pretty easily in the riparian zone down there, at least until 4000 cfs covers much of that zone up in standing water.

Keep some good notes on what you see/encounter, and send them in to the fine folks at DRBA who are putting together the new guidebook (Thanks DRBA!). The draft copy out now is better than the old guidebook by a mile, but is still full of errors and inaccuracies, imo, and most of the book, including the mileages, should be taken with some skepticism for now.

Oh, and if you hire "Hill Billy" as your shuttle driver, you might want to give him a map. He's not from around these parts, and seemed to have some trouble understanding the basics of the local geography, among other things.
 
#29 ·
Can anyone provide me with info on the dirt road that parallels the river in Ponderosa? Considering options for day trips this weekend and I'm wondering if it's possible to put in at Mountain Sheep Point recreation site and take out at 3 mile rapid? According to the old Dolores guide book that would be about 15 miles of the best whitewater on the river. However, the book says there is a gate that is closed from "February 1st to June 30th" near river mile 32.... can anyone confirm this? Thanks.
 
#30 ·
Apparently closed from February or March until July for Bighorn Sheep lambing.

San Juan National Forest page shows it as closed now.

You can call them to find out where exactly the closure is at :
DOLORES RANGER DISTRICT (970) 882-7296

If it is at river Mile 32, though, I believe that is past most of the rapids you are after. Descriptions of the road say it gets suddenly a lot worse when negotiating the Pyramid Rock Gooseneck just after river mile 29 so that may be a more logical takeout.
 
#31 ·
I drove the road from Mountain Sheep to Snag 2 weeks ago. I was in a Taco, right after a rain/snow event. Puddles were the only thing requiring 4WD. 1/4 mi. above Snag a very large boulder is in the middle of the road. At first I thought it was impassible but I managed to sneak around it. If you're bigger than a Taco, that's the end of the road. Can't comment past Snag.
 
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