4 Rivers Lottery - Mountain Buzz
 



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Old 03-19-2017   #1
 
bsimcoe's Avatar
 
Hailey, Idaho
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4 Rivers Lottery

Just curious if anyone has seen unconfirmed river permits pop up on Rec.gov.
Not that I don't trust them, but I don't trust them!

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Old 03-19-2017   #2
 
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Walterville, Oregon
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There hasn't been any and it is all the because of the commercial outfitters.
Rec.gov has been gamed
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Old 03-19-2017   #3
 
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Hailey, Idaho
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What do the commercials outfitters have to do with it? Their permits are administered and managed by the Forest Service not Rec.gov.
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Old 03-19-2017   #4
 
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Hailey, Idaho
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I read your REC.GOV link and I have to agree with Carve Dog, We both know many the local outfitters and have for years. Logistically speaking it would be very difficult for them to add to their schedules. There may be one or two out there that could pull it off but I don't think that is the problem. If the permits are showing up they go fast but I have yet to hear of anyone getting one since the 15th. If you have heard of any I am curious. Details are not needed I would like to know if they exist. Thanks
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Old 03-19-2017   #5
 
Salt Lake City, Utah
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a friend of mine picked one up for the main the other day, fwiw. There was also one for the last permit needing day of the season up for a little while, also main salmon..
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Old 03-19-2017   #6
 
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Originally Posted by UTMIKE View Post
a friend of mine picked one up for the main the other day, fwiw. There was also one for the last permit needing day of the season up for a little while, also main salmon..
I saw that one. It was there for at least 30 minutes (?) before it was taken.
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Old 03-19-2017   #7
 
Pullman, Washington
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I'm not big on conspiracy theories and I know my group were primed to hit hard and often on March 16th. For Dino at the announced release time there were probably hundreds of people huddled over their keyboards. I don't imagine we were the only ones. We have talked about the ease of someone using some kind of "bot" to keep hitting the site but most of us don't have the know how or the inclination.
My non conspiracy theory, science wired brain just says that there are a lot more of us primed to try to pick up permits when the big releases come and first click gets the worm. I have always trolled rec.gov regularly and picked up cancellations later in the season as they are released back.
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Old 03-19-2017   #8
 
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Sandy, Utah
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Originally Posted by wshutt View Post
I'm not big on conspiracy theories and I know my group were primed to hit hard and often on March 16th. For Dino at the announced release time there were probably hundreds of people huddled over their keyboards. I don't imagine we were the only ones. We have talked about the ease of someone using some kind of "bot" to keep hitting the site but most of us don't have the know how or the inclination.
My non conspiracy theory, science wired brain just says that there are a lot more of us primed to try to pick up permits when the big releases come and first click gets the worm. I have always trolled rec.gov regularly and picked up cancellations later in the season as they are released back.
My friends & I rarely ever get a permit in the lottery. There have been a few times that we have lucked out and picked up a March 16 cancellation. Most of the time we just pick out a few dates that work for everyone and keep looking. We have always had success. Maybe there are gamers out there, but I'm not that computer savvy. I just say a prayer, check rec.gov as often as I can within reason, and see what the River Gods bring my way. I have taken up flat water kayak touring in the past two years, and I have lots of trips planned. I'll be on a river or lake somewhere beautiful from spring to fall. If some of that time is spent on whitewater, that's great, if not, I'm good.
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Old 03-20-2017   #9
 
St. George, Utah
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wshutt View Post
I'm not big on conspiracy theories and I know my group were primed to hit hard and often on March 16th. For Dino at the announced release time there were probably hundreds of people huddled over their keyboards. I don't imagine we were the only ones. We have talked about the ease of someone using some kind of "bot" to keep hitting the site but most of us don't have the know how or the inclination.
My non conspiracy theory, science wired brain just says that there are a lot more of us primed to try to pick up permits when the big releases come and first click gets the worm. I have always trolled rec.gov regularly and picked up cancellations later in the season as they are released back.
A lot of it is just the luck of the draw. I got a Lodore for late August in the cancellation free for all with just a click. I don't use any software to aid me. I also have been lucky drawing Middle Forks in the primary lottery, one last year and my wife the year before. So it does happen with out permit parties or internet savvy. Not so lucky with the Grand Canyon though.
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Old 03-20-2017   #10
 
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Frankly, I think that any conspiracy is unlikely. Though I do not doubt that the occasional permit is picked up by a commercial outfitter. I am convinced though that there is more than enough traffic on Rec.Gov from the likes of the buzzards and other private rafters to easily snatch up all available permits within moments.

Unfortunately, my experience with Rec.Gov does not extend far back enough to comment on differences from previous years. I will say this though. I believe that some people are luckier than others, and have higher speed internet connections as well!

Personally, I would prefer the permit cancellations to be released in mini additional lotteries. That way speed of internet, and ability to sit staring at the Rec.Gov cancellation page do not sway the availability of snagging a cancellation so much. Also it would be easy to ensure no 'gaming' of the system that way.

FWIW, on the Rogue the commercials are very much vying for private cancellations. But that is probably more due to the nature of cancellations coming out as a head count rather than a trip permit. But every time I go I see the commercial guys in the process of securing canceled private permits.

Frankly, I think that commercial outfitters should not ever be allowed to take a private cancellation. They already have too many of the permits allocated to them compared to the number of people desiring those permits.
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