Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-31-2012   #11
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,132
Originally Posted by glenn View Post
Isn't every float trip loud and stinky regardless of a motor?
No. My last trip we did not have any kayakers.

Randy, "The boats ARE loud, DO stink, and create a wake as they pass
Always laugh about people that complain about the "wake as they pass".
We spend BIG$$$ and travel all over the country to get the biggest waves possible! I always hope they will give me one more wave to surf.

Rich is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2012   #12
I kayak DH.
Waterwindpowderrock's Avatar
Greater tri cities metro area, Colorado
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 794
Trying to explain logic to wilderness proponents is pointless. They're full of folks that never learned to share in kindergarten... and they're the same way now.

The only way they understand things is THEIR way.

I've given up arguing with that type of person. Their the type of person who fights against greed in a bunch of other ways... but don't understand that it's EXACTLY that when you want to eliminate anyone who doesn't do what you do from an area.

Oh, then they use moronic arguments like installing gondolas on Denali or wheelchair ramps at campsites...

Btw... I'm not at ALL a fan of motorized river travel... but MY OPINION isn't the only thing that matters, oddly enough there are other people in the world who don't live the life I am able to.

Discover Denver, stay there!
Waterwindpowderrock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2012   #13
rivervibe's Avatar
Salida, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1996
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 379
Sure, ok, I'll jump in too because I have a Canyon trip next year.

Realistically, I'll concede that motor rigs are probably there to stay, unfortunately. Personally, I wish the Canyon was a motor-free zone. The point of a wilderness, or lets just say natural experience, is NOT to just see it, but to EXPERIENCE it. I've been down there twice and every time I would hear the whine of those motors echoing for miles around the bends I had the distinct feeling that something special and unique was being lost. I felt violated when I smelled the exhaust on the morning air and lost in the crowd (in the crowd! down there!) when 30 people suddenly appeared at a hike. I am not there to be inundated with tourists who just wish to "see" the Canyon and who don't actually have any concept of the current under their boat. People I see go by but who really aren't there... just cocooned in their own bubble of noise. Without motor rigs there would still be plenty of paying customers going down the canyon. Thousands of people with have their lives changed, but true experiences in nature usually don't happen in a matter of days, you have to be committed for the duration.
Sorry if I sound like an elitist, maybe I am; but there is something magical about the Grand Canyon and ease of access does indeed dilute that meaning for everyone. I would wish everyone to be able to experience the Canyon, but really, if you don't have the time and energy to commit then maybe you shouldn't be there.
Please take a look at my Photo Web Gallery.
I also have here some gear reviews (that I might update soon).
rivervibe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2012   #14
Jenks, Oklahoma
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,407
My opinion, it is not the type of boat I see on the river, it is the people in the boat that make the difference.

One thing for sure, if you need help on a GC trip (or anywhere else for that matter) chances are anyone who comes by is gonna do what they can. Private, commercial, muscle powered or motor powered craft.

For sure there might be a rude person in any boat on any river at any river access but not very often.

I know on one of my boating buds GC float they were struggling to get a big 18 ft gear raft flipped back right side up. Commercial trip came by, instantly a bunch of folks jumped out, got the flip job done and every one had a good day because of it.

For what it is worth, I have pulled over to watch jet boats power up rapids on the Main Salmon and got a thank you wave for it, have also seen them wait at the bottom for my group to run down - our turn to courtesy wave. Courtesy is a great thing to share. One of these days, I am gonna get lucky on a permit and have the extra bucks to ride a jet boat back up to Corn Creek. Some of my river buds did that a few years back and reported that it was a great way to finish up a fantastic down river run and was one heck of a ride to boot.
okieboater is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2012   #15
kikii875's Avatar
Orem, Utah
Paddling Since: 1969
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 207
Originally Posted by Randaddy View Post
...I say this as someone who has rowed the Canyon more than once, and as someone who recognized that there are things I don't get, like the view from the top of Mt. Everest. I will probably never earn that - like the fanny pack crowd has not earned their 6 day Grand Canyon trip!
How do you earn something like this?

Originally Posted by Randaddy View Post
As for the disabled, I am proud to be part of a country that has the compassion and wisdom to mandate access for disabled people to most buildings, parks, monuments, etc. However, I've never met a disabled person that insists on their right to float the Grand Canyon, climb that mountain, or ski that back-country chute. Some disabled people accomplish these things and inspire us all - but I doubt they would insist on access to the wildest and most remote places just because able-bodied adventurers get to go there.
Yes, there are disabled people that want to go on river trips in the canyon.

I have taken many disabled people on the river both motor and oar. However, when we took the kidney patients down the river it required motorized boats to carry the dialisis equipment.

Originally Posted by Randaddy View Post
Of course I feel zero compassion for the poor soul who wants to raft the Grand, but only has a week of vacation. F*$% 'em! There is no reason to advocate for their right to see the whole Canyon in a week because they have more important things to do. I make chump change, live in cheap rentals, have dogs, and CHOOSE to spend hundreds of hours a year on the river. Some schmuck with a week of vacation from their high paying job that wants to let the motor do the work gets no love from me!
This is a broad genenralization of those that can only take 6 days on the river. Yes, for some it is just there summer vacation with the family where they can afford to pay whatever to go to a different destination each year. But there are also those who have save their entire life to bring their family down the canyon and 6 days is all they can afford at that.

As far as the smell of the motors, when you ban smoking in the canyon then maybe you would have a point. To me, passing someone on the trail that is smoking is much worse than the motors.
You had me at 'Hey, Row'
kikii875 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2012   #16
glenn's Avatar
BZN, Montana
Paddling Since: 2008
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,489
We have as a country defined wilderness and wilderness protection to mean among other things areas of non-mechanized travel. To claim that the river, the very heart of this great wilderness area is exempt and simultaneously still claim it is a wilderness is silly. I think it's well stated the motors aren't going away, and I think it's also well stated that the experience isn't the same for those on the motorized boats and it's not the same for those not on the motorized boats. For that matter, I'm sure the hiking experience is very different now than it was 50 years ago when the whitewater traffic was a fraction of what it is now. WWPR got it right; we need to share. I would be sad if there were no rivers that disallowed motors but that's not what this is about at all.
The sunshine walked beside her
glenn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2012   #17
montuckyhuck's Avatar
The Bitterroot, Montana
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 451
Motorboats may be there to stay but I think it is super lame. They are loud, they do stink and they have no business down there or in most other water ways imo. Calling people selfish for feeling this way is a cheap defense. So you don't like the gondola analogy? Ok then how about dirtbikes going wherever they want in Rocky Mtn NP? Then when you bitch about your disturbed serenity and the impact they are having on their surroundings they call you selfish for saying who can play. Its just so damn Merican "let's go see how much gas we can burn while recreating bob". Yes I drive, that I can't deny, im saving for a diesel to convert to veg, I raise my own meat and grow my own veggies, fruit and berries, and raise chickens for thier eggs so in this sense my money is where my mouth is. I really dont like snowmobiles either.
montuckyhuck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2012   #18
montuckyhuck's Avatar
The Bitterroot, Montana
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 451
Hike your ass in if you want turns, row your ass down the river.
montuckyhuck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2012   #19
rivervibe's Avatar
Salida, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1996
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 379
Originally Posted by montuckyhuck View Post
Hike your ass in if you want turns, row your ass down the river.
Love it! I might have to quote this later on too, just sayin'.
Please take a look at my Photo Web Gallery.
I also have here some gear reviews (that I might update soon).
rivervibe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2012   #20
wildh2onriver's Avatar
irvine, California
Paddling Since: 1987
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,197
Originally Posted by kikii875

Yea, you tell em. And smaller rivers should only have kayaks, no rafts, the rowing rigs are too big and crowd the river. #sarcasm

You should feel however you want. Your opinion won't change anything as far as motors go in the canyon. I have seen three different major pushes to eliminate motors over the years and they all went down in flames.
I have run commercially both with motor and oars and I honestly don't see the problem. When I am rowing, the motor boats are by quickly and there is no issue. If you have a problem with motors then go when they are not on the river. I am so sorry for ruining the wilderness experience of all the private trips that I have given food, ice, tp, camps, patching material, a life jacket, and manpower to flip boats over. BTW: if you are going to ask a commercial trip for something, don't send over the girl that looks the best in a bikini (lame). Just come and ask. We are all in this together and should help each other out.
I have been boating in the canyon for 43 years and I can tell you that the motors are there to stay. Most of the seasoned river guides that I know both motor and row because they know the same thing, that the motors will stay in the canyon.
With due respect kiki, your opening analogy has nothing to do with the topic. I respect yours and the many other GC guides for their 'good Samaritan' conduct on the river. What does your generosity have to do with my distaste for seeing motor rigs with hordes of tourists on the river? Of course that's not going to change---commercials have far more money to lobby for business as usual.

wildh2onriver is offline   Reply With Quote

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

Similar Threads
Topic Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Grand Canyon National Park: Rockslide in Canyon: Aug. 23, 2012 Andy H. The Eddy 3 08-29-2012 04:55 PM
What would Wilderness Designation mean for WW and Deso DanCan Whitewater Kayaking 29 11-28-2011 07:22 PM
Grand Canyon- Marble Canyon layover camp skookumchuk Whitewater Kayaking 4 09-12-2011 09:13 PM
Grand Canyon 9/25 - 10/15 paddlepilot Kayaking | Trip Planner 5 09-06-2008 07:58 PM
Grand Canyon 8/1-16 katszam Kayaking | Trip Planner 1 07-01-2008 04:46 PM

» Classified Ads
Raft Trailer 8x12

posted by tbirk

8x12 Raft Trailer. -Full size spare -Winch -Rollers...

10' Cataract Oars

posted by rockinRio

10' Cataract Oars, rope wrapped, and two counter balances....

vintage Avon foot pump

posted by Johnny

Vintage Avon foot pump from back in the '80s when I had a...

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

Our Communities

Our communities encompass many different hobbies and interests, but each one is built on friendly, intelligent membership.

» More about our Communities

Automotive Communities

Our Automotive communities encompass many different makes and models. From U.S. domestics to European Saloons.

» More about our Automotive Communities

Marine Communities

Our Marine websites focus on Cruising and Sailing Vessels, including forums and the largest cruising Wiki project on the web today.

» More about our Marine Communities

Copyright 2002-2012 Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:34 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.