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Old 08-24-2016   #31
Canon City, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2000
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Originally Posted by UriahJones View Post
...but my perception remains that unlawful search and seizure happens less than is lamented about.
This is probably true, but I believe that many searches that are without cause aren't unlawful, because the citizen consents to the search because they don't know they can refuse. Furthermore, even though I know I can refuse if they don't have cause, I will probably consent to an otherwise illegal search because I know that the officer/agent will probably take whatever other steps he can in order to either search my shit, or make my life hell for the next several hours- detain me and not let me go on my way while we wait for a drug dog to be driven in from Boise, comes to mind as a probable outcome of refusing a search at Boundary Creek.

Do I think they should check fishing licenses? Of course.

Do I think knucklehead with drugs on his license is an idiot? Yeah, probably.

Do I think that the police will do everything they can, within an inch of violating the letter of the law, in order to get me to consent to a search that they know full well is illegal in the spirit of the law? Hell yes.

Does it piss you off that they have that kind of leverage against law abiding citizens?? It sure does me.

PS- I don't take weed to Idaho- it's a dumb idea, and I might get caught if I did that!

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Old 08-24-2016   #32
Fort Collins, Colorado
Paddling Since: 95
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Originally Posted by Tyrrache View Post
Pot is still illegal in Idaho even though their neighboring states (Oregon, Warshington, and Colorado) are more progressive. Hell, even Montana has medical.
Colorado is a much a neighbor to Idaho as California is.

Yes, I know pedantry is annoying.

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Old 08-24-2016   #33
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Salem, Oregon
Paddling Since: 2005
Join Date: Aug 2015
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I totally agree with you regarding the methods law enforcement can go to in order to obtain 'consent'. Yes, it does make me as angry as the next guy. Thankfully it hasn't happened yet to me, and hope it never does.

As wrong as that is, I wouldn't be the slightest bit surprised that the guy in question hadn't really done something to make the officers very interested in taking a look inside his stuff before they walked into camp.

Some of my best friends are in law enforcement, and sad to say I also think the truism holds that power corrupts. People get used to 'enforcing' and bending laws for the 'greater good'. Happens to good people in law enforcement all the time, a sad tribute to human behavior. If only everyone would behave themselves (and I mean the few bad apples by that remark) then we'd all live with less oversight and more freedom!
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Old 08-24-2016   #34
Evereywhere, State of Bliss
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Originally Posted by Sherpa9543 View Post
The search was not illegal. They were checking fishing licenses, and the angler had his paraphernalia/substance in his tackle box with his license. Marijuana is illegal in many states, and states where it is legal, it's still an illegal substance on federal land. I hope this thread scares people away from running rivers in Idaho.
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You were there???
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Old 08-24-2016   #35
Evereywhere, State of Bliss
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Originally Posted by UriahJones View Post
Ah, and if those details are correct it does kind of put to bed the controversy here. At least to my thinking. One can question the use of resources of course, but honestly considering the commotion a couple tickets has caused here... I think that the resources expended will likely have their desired effect. To deter the illegal taking of fish and use of weed

Not to belabor the point, since true police overreach does occur, but more often I hear whining stories from people who were in the wrong and are just sad to face some consequences for their actions.

I don't suppose that will change the feelings of many, but my perception remains that unlawful search and seizure happens less than is lamented about.
So the uniformed river patrol and uniformed game rangers aren't enough? We have to spend x amount of dollars to pay undercover agents to boat the river corridor? Seems to me there's extreme problems with meth in zones close by. Theft, as previously mentioned, I can only assume is some how connected with this drug epidemic. Its not the guy smoking a joint on the MFS that needs triple enforcing and undercover surverying. I disagree with you that illegal searches and LEO intimidation is the exception not the rule. I have had different experiences than you.
No I wasn't there, but I have been on the wrong side of a cop profiling me. My "lack of cooperation" with his plan to trample my civil rights only made him more sure I was a criminal. Yes standing my ground was extremely frustrating. It took hours of illegal detainment to be free to go on my way. I was verbally abused and intimidated and it has made me very afraid of any further LEO interactions. I have many friends who have similar experiences. Not just regarding drugs. Police in general trying to "bend" the law to get in a house or take your weapons or get information. They're taught these tactics in training. They know its not illegal for them to lie to get us to give consent to step on our civil rights.
The uniformed officers I have met on the MFS have been so kind. They really as stewards of that land. Thats what a place like that needs.
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Old 08-24-2016   #36
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This is what their boats look like, so steer clear.

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Old 08-24-2016   #37
Canon City, Colorado
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I wouldn't be surprised, either, if somebody on a river trip (or at the put-in) did some dumb shit to attract attention. Even if all they were doing was checking licenses of those who were fishing, and he had weed in plain sight once he opened a bag, that's enough, and I don't have a problem with it. I was mostly speaking in generalities.

I will speak from personal experience, and from the experience of close personal friends when I say that while the constitution may prevail in court, the cops basically have 100% power to do what they want, when they want, with very little fear of consequences. For example, if they want to search you, they're going to search you- consent or probable cause aside. Whatever they find may get thrown out in court, but at that point you've just spent a long weekend in the can waiting for a judge in god-knows-where to come back from his Labor Day weekend hunting trip.

Hell, I had a friend whose car was emptied completely- shit strewn all about- on the side of I-70. They didn't find shit (even though he did have a tiny bit of weed, the dumbass), but they still took him to jail for 4 or 5 days, before letting him out, dropping any fabricated charges, and letting him hitchhike back to his car and load his shit back up after it'd been blown around on the highway for half a week.

I have to agree with Teton in thinking that uniformed rangers, whose job leans more toward education than enforcement, are a far better use of resources than the undercover operation we see pics of above.

Last thing I'm going to say, in a very broad sense- not specific to a weed ticket on the MFS, is that I strongly support reform (constitutional amendment, if necessary) to A. Require LE nationwide to operate in good faith (i.e.- can't lie to us about our rights, or what evidence they have) and B. To hold all LE to a higher standard of care (in terms of use of force, and in terms of violating civil rights).

Thanks all for the great discussion!
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Old 08-24-2016   #38
Walla Walla, Washington
Paddling Since: 1995
Join Date: May 2011
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OK change of subject. Why are the Idaho police running boats made in Oregon? Aire, Maravia, come on get those state contracts!

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Old 08-24-2016   #39
Minturn, Colorado
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I wonder what the warranty for a police issue sotar is....

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Old 08-24-2016   #40
Nye, Montana
Paddling Since: 2012
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 232
Not a fan of cops but sure as hell don't want to see them on the river on a multi day trip. Shit man, go bust killary or a meth lab. Seriously, Idaho is full of meth. Go waste tax payer funds on that instead. Thanks.

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