Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-08-2012   #21
Little Rock, Arkansas
Paddling Since: 1978
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 61
Not too harsh, hey, I did ask for feedback.
The level was 4.5' or so on the Corn Creek gauge. In hindsight, at or above my skillset. My friend, the TL, is famous for using the phrase, "It's a step up" and getting us into an occasional pickle. He did throw out the option of us R2ing the SuperPuma. Didn't take me long to say no to that.
I could have gone along as a passenger for the whole trip. Didn't want to do that either.
I flipped at Big Mallard because I did not read the rapid, just relied on "how your'e suppose to run it at such and such a level.". I'd seen some video, obviously at lower levels. It did not look like my mental picture and I didn't get a good look at the guy who ran it ahead of me. They had told me to get as far left as you can. ?

TimEubanks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2012   #22
cataraftgirl's Avatar
Sandy, Utah
Paddling Since: 1997
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 3,121
The Main is my favorite trip and I've done it about 15 times over the past 10 years, but never at 4.5 feet. Sounds like you have an honest assessment that this was right on the line for you skill & experience wise. Was this your first Main Salmon trip? Did your group stop and scout Big M? At lower flows, far left is the usual run. If you knew this trip might be a challenge, then maybe you should have arranged for your wife to have a seat on another raft from the beginning, or had her skip this trip. The Main is such an awesome trip, it's a shame she had a scary experience. Maybe with your new, bigger boat,you can redeem yourself and get her back into it. Maybe she'll give the MS another try some day at lower flows. Good luck.

cataraftgirl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2012   #23
Pinecliffe, Colorado
Paddling Since: 05
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 447
How many CFS is 4.5'?
The road to Hell is paved with good intentions. KARL MARX
treemanji is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2012   #24
2tomcat2's Avatar
Westminster, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1980
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 219
I've worked commercial trips, planned/led trips for public entities, planned/led many private trips. Folks need to think honestly if a particular trip is a good fit for their current fitness/skill/enjoyment level. Customers need to "read and heed" information regarding the difficulty of a commercial trip, be honest about their expectations and perhaps they might learn flexibility and adaptability while traveling.

Friends on private trips should ideally meet before a trip...opportunity to express expectations, concerns...everyone is responsible to, not for each other...end of sermon.

Had a bad swim about 25 years ago and thought I would not be on the water again. I joined and ultimately led a womens' outdoor group (hiking, backpacking, rafting, cross country skiing, etc.)...learned diverse outdoor skills that greatly improved my self confidence; also took refresher courses in CPR and wilderness first aid. Just a suggestion. Needless to say, I got back on the boat!
"Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans"
2tomcat2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2012   #25
Little Rock, Arkansas
Paddling Since: 1978
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 61
Originally Posted by treemanji View Post
How many CFS is 4.5'?
8 or 9k? It was my first Main Salmon trip, first western trip. From there we did the Middle and South Fork of the Flathead in MT, in the Bob. Great trips.
TimEubanks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2012   #26
cataraftgirl's Avatar
Sandy, Utah
Paddling Since: 1997
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 3,121
4.5 ft. Is between 12,000 & 15,000 cfs. It is considered high water.
cataraftgirl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2012   #27
Favre's Avatar
Nampa, Idaho
Paddling Since: 1995
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 240
Not sure what the flows were when I did it, but it was high, and that Big Mallard hole on the left was rather large! It was a raft-flipper for sure..
Favre is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2012   #28
Avatard's Avatar
portland, Oregon
Paddling Since: 1991
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 2,188
Ass gas or grass nobody rides for free. I've been on trips where i agree to take certain passengers on my boat through stretches of the river. Not that i'm an awesome oarsmans but God's gotta put out a huge effort to flip my boat and he's been kinda peaceful since the days of Noah and Moses.

That being said anyone can read a map and know where to pull out and scout and where to let your passengers beg and plead for another ride or trail around a rapid. Sounds like if you've never run that stretch than you shouldnt blame anyone else for your predicament regardless of the arrangements for the trip

FYI my friends are more than happy to have my wife on their boat but the enhancements weren't cheap
Hey, if you want me to take a dump in a box and mark it "guaranteed", I will. I got spare time.
Avatard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2012   #29
Wavester's Avatar
NorCal, California
Paddling Since: 91
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 330
Well...I almost flipped in Big Mallard this year trying to get cute and go left of the big rock. Bottom line is anyone can flip on any rated river, just make a small mistake is all it takes.
But back to this didn't mention what size boats the rest of the group were oaring and what kind of gear they were carrying. Imo a super puma with a passenger and a week worths of gear is pushing it for that size boat. I'm guessing you weren't carrying a whole lot of community gear and maybe some of the other boats were loaded down. Regardless it sounds like to me that the TL may have had trouble getting the boatman to take your passenger. He can only ask and not order them to take a passenger imo.
I have been there where you take a passenger in the middle of the trip, either an IKer who takes a swim and now wants ride on a raft or someone who has lost confidence of their boatman usually after a flip. I usually tell IKers and kayakers on trips I run that for the most part you will be paddling the boat you show up in.
It's kind of an imposition imo to ask another boat to carry your passenger.

Originally Posted by slickhorn View Post
let me play devil's advocate and toss out "what were you doing flipping in big mallard?"

I don't know the flow or the group skills, but if you are responsible for a passenger who isn't comfortable swimming, they you gotta boat without flipping. There it is. I disagree that flipping is always in play. That's really only true if you are running rivers where flipper features are simply unavoidable, and that's not true of the Main at most normal flows. It's on you to use your experience, judgement, and skill to put yourself in a position where you aren't going to flip.

If the main salmon isn't a river where you can deliver that no-flip certitude ... maybe it's not the right river for that passenger. If you don't know what rivers you can 100% get down without flipping, that's a whole different story.

I'm not trying to be harsh. But at some point, and I'm not hearing this in the posts above, YOU have to be responsible for the flow, craft, and river choices that create the experience your wife can enjoy. I'd be pretty annoyed to get stuck with a passenger I'm not rigged for because someone isn't up to the river we are on. Flipping at big mallard, unless this was unusual flow ... again, I'm sorry to be harsh, but it makes me question if you are up to that level of water. Not knowing more context, it doesn't sound like a casual mistake and it calls fundamentals into question. If your wife questions that too ... well, she isn't going to ever be comfortable on the river.

My lady doesn't dig swimming. She doesn't get in the boat if we're doing water where that's in play. And yes, I will make the claim I can 100% get down the main salmon without flipping at ordinary summer flows. I think many on here would make the same claim.

Hope that wasn't too harsh ... said with the best intentions.
Wavester is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2012   #30
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 405
If she is going to be nervous and stressed out, and frightened at the possibility of going for a swim, then she is certainly no fun as a passenger, and I wouldn't want the responsibility of someone like that on my boat.

My guess is they would have been glad to make room for her if she was having fun and was excited/enthusiastic about the whitewater, and wanted to "visit with person X" rather than just wanted a bigger boat so she had less chance of going for a swim. Don't mean to be rude here - I am just trying to put myself in their shoes for an explanation.

jennifer is offline   Reply With Quote

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

Similar Threads
Topic Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Multi Day Trip Recommendation??? farnzi1 Whitewater Kayaking 15 08-24-2009 08:37 PM
The best multi day trip? paulk Whitewater Kayaking 8 12-11-2007 10:43 AM
Multi-Day Arkansas Trip mountaincrash Kayaking | Trip Planner 8 12-10-2007 06:10 PM
feedback on Rogue multi day- Grave Creek to Foster Bar CBrown Whitewater Kayaking 10 07-09-2007 03:39 PM
looking for best multi day river trip in CO/UT/WY Zumbler Kayaking | Trip Planner 4 04-30-2006 02:19 PM

» Classified Ads

posted by jillyd23

Large NRS DuraSoft Coolers, pick up Salida, CO

aluminum "trailer"/box...

posted by Johnny

I am selling an aluminum frame component designed to hold...

Maravia 14 x 22 Cataraft...

posted by Music

2016 Maravia Custom Built 14 x 22 Cat... MEEEOOOWWW!! I...

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

Our Communities

Our communities encompass many different hobbies and interests, but each one is built on friendly, intelligent membership.

» More about our Communities

Automotive Communities

Our Automotive communities encompass many different makes and models. From U.S. domestics to European Saloons.

» More about our Automotive Communities

Marine Communities

Our Marine websites focus on Cruising and Sailing Vessels, including forums and the largest cruising Wiki project on the web today.

» More about our Marine Communities

Copyright 2002-2012 Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:51 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.