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Old 03-01-2015   #11
Sleepless's Avatar
Vail, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2011
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 157
Multi day trips without a layover are incomplete in my circle. Not trying to tell anyone else how they should do their trips but if I'm on the water for a week I want a day that I'm not rigging and a night that I can relax and get into my cooler a bit more.

I'm not a huge fan of assigned campsites. It seems that someone else always makes a mistake and now my group either must share our site with your odd ball group or try and figure out what isn't reserved ahead of us. If no one cheats or messes up then then I guess they are ok. I do enjoy the on the fly planning that comes with long multidays and open camping though. Some days you feel like being on the water longer. Some days you can't wait to get of the water or really need to get off the water. That's part of the freedom of rafting. I understand permitting rivers to avoid over use but lets not over think things and dictate how others have to spend their time on their trips.

My two cents

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Old 03-01-2015   #12
cataraftgirl's Avatar
Sandy, Utah
Paddling Since: 1997
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 3,120
Almost all of the most desirable, large group sites are already reserve camps. Is the goal of this change to extend the reserve status to the desirable camps of all sizes? Is the goal to eliminate layovers? The reserve ahead, peace of mind thing seems to apply more to larger groups, than to small groups. Commercial outfitters are rarely in the small camp category, so they are already using the large reservable camps for the most part. Is the goal to eliminate any conflicts between those of us who understand the concept of "first come first served" and those who don't?

As for the Middle Fork. We run this almost exclusively in the post season, when layovers are allowed. Even in the fall, we rarely get out first choice of camps every night. Several of our favorites go to outfitters and larger groups. The last few years, on an 8 day MF trip, we get about 50-75% of our first choice camps. But most of the camps on the MF are great regardless, so it's no biggie.

Losing the ability to layover on either the MF or the Main Salmon would bum us out quite a bit. Layovers are an important aspect of our trips.

"We are all visitors to this time, this place. We are just passing through. Our purpose here is to observe, to learn, to grow, to love....and then we return home."
Australian Aboriginal Proverb
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Old 03-01-2015   #13
Whetstone's Avatar
Boise, Idaho
Paddling Since: 1976
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 362
Ill call the Salmon Challis ranger station tomorrow and see what I can find out. I dont think there is any cause for concern without further info. I must admit that at first I didnt think more inclusive reservation system sounded so bad but having heard the concerns here about layovers and flexibility, I am rethinking things.

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Old 03-01-2015   #14
Bend, Oregon
Paddling Since: 2008
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 113

Interesting. This doesn't look like a Forest Service sponsored questionnaire. I don't know what the objective is, or who is behind this, but it looks more like a private interest petition which will/may be presented to the FS to promote change. I don't see a link on any FS website encouraging input. I could be wrong but something isn't right here. Just speculation, of course. We will see.
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Old 03-02-2015   #15
Whetstone's Avatar
Boise, Idaho
Paddling Since: 1976
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 362
Originally Posted by cmharris View Post
Interesting. This doesn't look like a Forest Service sponsored questionnaire.
I think your are right. I spoke with Donna at the Middle fork office today and showed her the survey. She said she was unaware of it and that it did not look like something from FS. I then called Larry, the Main Salmon Manager and left a message for him. Have not heard back yet.

Who outside the FS would have an agenda that might benefit from a survey like this? Commercial Outfitters Groups/Organizations? Just curious! It does not seem mischievous.
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Old 03-02-2015   #16
Whetstone's Avatar
Boise, Idaho
Paddling Since: 1976
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 362
OK, Just off the Phone with Larry from USFS Main Salmon office. It is not a FS survey. It appears to be a third party survey put out in prep for the upcoming USFS/IOGA meeting scheduled for next week. Larry says that the Campsite reservation issue is a point of discussion at every meeting and that he is not surprised by the survey and it's timing. He was very curious to hear my feelings on the matter and welcomes input from all private boaters any time you want to call and chat with him. Super nice guy. PM me if you need his direct phone #.

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