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Old 04-26-2015   #41
telluride, Moab, UT
Paddling Since: 1977
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 60
I do not think that would be legal....

Originally Posted by dugger View Post
Ranger Brian at Lee's Ferry told us in February that most accidents in the Canyon are the result of alcohol & if the trend continues it may mean banning everyone's favorite beverage from river trips.
The park cannot prevent adults to consume alcohol, could be possible to enforce DUI laws on the water for drunk driving, but not at camp. What about the commercial trips? I did 7 years of law enforcement and I agree 90% of what I dealt with was alcohol related, but yet we still have liquor stores selling alcohol.

Regarding your question, double to triple your normal intake at home, you are on vacation, lots of time to drink and people who "never" drink will be drinking your beers.

Amazing but true story. In the eighties, the WV raft company I worked for would always do a fall trip, they always ran out of beer being thirsty river guides. One year they decided 2 1/2 6 packs/person/day would be enough. They had several folks who were not drinkers, but they were included into the formula. At the put in, they had 176 cases of beer all stacked up ready to load into their boats, guessed it,..... they still drank it all!!! Have fun and stay hydrated, drink responsibly and have the time of your life!!

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Old 04-27-2015   #42
pocatello, Idaho
Paddling Since: 1991
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 471
I don't drink. I still found the canyon to be perfectly enjoyable somehow. And my memory of it is pretty clear.

Those in my group that drank seemed to also be enjoying themselves. They seemed to really enjoy a few around camp at night. And a few guys enjoyed my share thoroughly.

Our rental company commented on how little alcohol we brought. But only half of us drank. The beer rationing started around day 14 I think. I suspect no matter how much was packed it would have been consumed by day 14. I think the formula was a scant 4 per person per day, which ended up being 8 per drinker per day. There was also a few gallons of tequila and everyone seemed to have a private reserve or mystery liquid as well.

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Old 05-26-2015   #43
Carbondale, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1984
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 14
On my last trip 3 years ago I figured at home a big beer drinking day was 4. I packed 7 a day for a 21 day trip, thinking I'd have some days drinking less and be totally fine. Ran out with about 3 days to go...luckily another guy had brought more than he could possibly drink; unluckily it was Coors Light. Beer like substance, not really beer, but oh well. We figured we ran into trouble with the afternoon beers on the boat. That first one tasted so good we had to have a second. With a few dead ones rubbing in the drag bag and/or getting pinholes in storage on the boat (another subject, worth it's own thread), there was surprising attrition.

My next trip (in October 2016) will be a 12 pack a day, better safe than sorry.
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Old 05-26-2015   #44
Salida, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1986
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 727
If 16 people budget 12/day for a 20 day trip, that works out to 160 cases for the trip. Now we begin to count beer by the pallet. I like my beer too, but that number becomes unmanageable at a certain point.
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Old 06-01-2015   #45
BlueVelvet's Avatar
breckenridge, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1999
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 3
We took 7 kegs and something like 15 handles. Wasn't enough for 18 ppl.

Invest in a jockey box and take kegs and muggos. It avoids having all the waste and you don't have to duct tape all your cases of beer anymore. You might even get creative and strap some kegs and poco pads together and take it down a 6 or 7.

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Old 06-01-2015   #46
wildsoles's Avatar
Belfair, Washington
Paddling Since: 1995
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 40
Originally Posted by RHANSON View Post
15 beers per person per day (15x16x19) comes out to a beautiful GRAND total of 4560 barley pops, or 152 30 racks. $3040 USD, $190 per person.
The average beer can weighs 13.1 oz, so we will be hauling 3733.5 pounds, or 1693.5 kg, the average weight of a hippopotomus.
Another amazing factoid is this works out to exactly 1 beer per person per mile!
Hippopotomus! Awesome.
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Old 06-02-2015   #47
Nye, Montana
Paddling Since: 2012
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 232
2 beers a mile minimum. That is if you are a moderate drinker.
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Old 06-02-2015   #48
wildh2onriver's Avatar
irvine, California
Paddling Since: 1987
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,197
Originally Posted by BlueVelvet View Post
We took 7 kegs and something like 15 handles. Wasn't enough for 18 ppl.

Invest in a jockey box and take kegs and muggos. It avoids having all the waste and you don't have to duct tape all your cases of beer anymore. You might even get creative and strap some kegs and poco pads together and take it down a 6 or 7.

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How'd you get 18 people on a 16 peeps permit?

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Old 06-02-2015   #49
cedar city, Utah
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,928
2 beers a mile minimum. That is if you are a moderate drinker.
2x226=452/9days= 50 beers a day per person......there is nothing moderate about that and its well beyond the definition of binge drinking.

Even for a 16 day trip that is 28 beers a day which 2.6 gallons a day of beer per person for 16 days straight. Are we really condoning that level of consumption during the summer on a whitewater multi-day trip? Lets assume those 28 beers are consumed evenly over an 18 hour period, here is the corresponding BAC average:

225 lb male: .20
200 lb male: .263
175 lb male: .345

225 lb female: .260
200 lb female: .330
175 lb female: .421

200 lb male, 452 beers over 16 days (384 hours) would mean a steady BAC of 0.267

And lets be honest, those aren't consumed consistently so most people who consume that amount are going to oscillate radically above and below that number (about 0.05 for every change of about 3 hours span).

Wikipedia even above .20 often means loss of motor function, loss of consciousness and blackouts. Getting above .40 can easily lead to such a depression of the CNS system that breathing and circulation are jeopardized. Those numbers don't take into account multiple days or weeks of drinking or the liquor and wine consumed later in the day that seems all to common.

There is nothing safe, healthy or moderate about condoning that level of alcohol consumption for 9-16 days straight. I don't know if its a minority or majority of us who drink that way but that level of substance abuse rightfully puts us on any agencies radar and it should leave us as a community concerned. According to the Arizona boating handbook agencies can prosecute for Operating Under the Influence (OUI)( 0.08 ) for any watercraft, not just motorized ones (not sure what law justifies that policy). And lest we forget, a kayaker died last year after alcohol consumption and BAC of 0.27 below Lava.

These numbers are frightening. I hope I don't live under a rock in my assumption that this level of abuse is rare.

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Old 06-03-2015   #50
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page, Arizona
Paddling Since: 2014
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 134
i think i brought around 200 cans, 2 and a half gallons of liquor and 3 boxes of wine.... i came back with around 30 cans of beer 1 and a half gallons of liquor and 1 and a half boxes of wine... there are no liquor stores in the grand canyon if you want to drink it you better bring it. about 5-10% of cans were lost out of drag bag or broke open before consumption. around 2 beers a day will be spilled/knocked over. plus there is always a guy or 2 that didn't bring enough. beer makes for a hell of a bargaining tool.

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