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Old 11-21-2005   #61
no tengo
mania's Avatar
Baytopia, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1876
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,768
nice. you guys coulda made it with some forward high siding. the rapid actually looks pretty runnable from that set. that site sux tho (slo).

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Old 11-22-2005   #62
Front Range, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2005
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 274
Man, if it were my carnage, I'd claim it... but unfortunately (fortunately?? ), *that* particular disaster belonged to someone else.

With Oceana, though, every run's pretty much a crap shoot, so maybe next time....

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Old 11-22-2005   #63
WhiteLightning's Avatar
Eagle County, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2002
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 928
At first I thought that you your crew (Newby). I was going to say, tell that guide he needs that paddle ready!

Tim K. I noticed that Timberline didn't do guide training last year. On the web site it said they already had the guides you need. Are you guys planning on doing one this year? I would like to a couple weeks off work and get commercially certified and pick up some weekend shifts next year. I did my SWR stuff with Mike Mather, do you know if he is still does instructing for any of the local companies?

I've heard about Mongo's runs down Upper Death, etc. I've thought a little bit about doing B-springs, but I would like to set up safety and have a good partner.

I didn't even know you could get a commercial permit to run Gore Creek or Gilman. I haven't ever seen anyone in a raft in GC. What kind of boats do you guys run through there?
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Old 11-22-2005   #64
no tengo
mania's Avatar
Baytopia, Colorado
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Posts: 1,768
cmon down to durango we'll get ya certified at 4 corners. mike mather is the man.
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Old 11-22-2005   #65
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Geologist, Colorado
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Posts: 583
For Oceana....the left line is a crap shoot. So be wise and run it center. At least you won't break your ankles and you can be in control of your own destiny.
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Old 11-22-2005   #66
WhiteLightning's Avatar
Eagle County, Colorado
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Hi Dana, I will keep that in mind, but might like to train with someone up here that I could try to work for.
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Old 11-22-2005   #67
Front Range, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2005
Join Date: Jun 2005
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Hate to disappoint, guys!

No silver sweet helmet in the pics = no Newby!
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Old 11-23-2005   #68
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Golden, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1985
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 191
Tim K- Nice post, haven't heard some of those names in years. Thanks for the heads up on Black Gore I was suprised by the size of the creek that comes off Buffalo Pass when I hiked it and always wondered about B. Gore. Something close to home to check out next summer if this snow keeps up. I've always figured manofthehouse is Covington.
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Old 11-24-2005   #69
Join Date: Nov 2005
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I believe the permit for GC and Gilman would be included in the permit for the eagle river in general, although as Tim said logisticaly Gilman(commercialy) is pretty much a no go due to limited water and accessibility. I run for Nova anddid some comercial trips on Gore Creek this spring, although we really only run it on request as the portage I mentioned earlier kinda blows. We portage from the dog park because it's the last raft sized eddie and although you could theoretically float the boat under the pipes with everyone laying on the floor or swimming next to the boat that really isn't to safe... (Safety first!) Also I've heard that there was a timberline guide who was floating his boat under the pipe and was going to jump over the pipe... but he didn't make it and ending up doing significant damage to his knee. As for boats we like to use our 13'wing or our 12' highsides, but I'd run any decent 12-13'er in there. If you wanna give it a go in the spring give me a shout
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Old 11-25-2005   #70
Tim Kennedy
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Avon, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1988
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 107
Guide training in Vail area


Not sure yet if we are offering a guide school next spring. We'll know more after the New Year when we hear back from returning and international guides. I'll keep you posted. You could always send an email to

We run 13' Hysides with 3 thwarts. On Gore Creek, we like to keep the loads light, four or five guests and one guide. We use the same boats on Dowd, Clear Creek, Pine Creek/Numbers and Gore Canyon. Up to six and a guide on PC/Numbers and Dowd and most of the time three or four and a guide on Gore Canyon.

As far as having guests duck under pipes or swim under on Gore Creek, we never allow that. The guests always walk around the pipes. We have had two guides in the past do some serious knee damage to themselves thinking that they could jump over the second pipe and land back in the raft. One was in 1992 or so and another in 1996. The guy in '96 had just arrived in town and went along on a "fun run" and was apparently not privy to the story from '92. We also had one guide try to go under the left side of the second pipe and strike his shoulder on the pipe. The pipes are serious business and not to be taken lightly. If you take out at Steven's Park, you cannot get a raft back to the creek until after the game fence right above Migration Chute rapid. You really need to have shore support at the pipes to ensure no one goes into/under them. I have heard stories of other rafts on fun runs and with other companies flip/wrap on the first pipe. If the water level is high, do not run past Steven's Park in a raft. I kayaked it a few springs ago and was able to boof over the left side of the first pipe, but walked the second pipe. The wave train made rolling under the pipe a sketchy prospect. The current was way too fast for a raft to safely ferry/eddy out. As far as determining water levels, we used to use the covered bridge at the Ford Ampitheatre as a gauge. But that bridge has since been rebuilt at a greater height above the creek. The round rock behind the West Vail Amoco in the middle of the creek and visible from the road is a good indicator. If it is dry, too low. Wet or washing over, good level. Forming a hole, too high. The Dowd Chute gauge is not an option, too many variables between the Gore Creek and Eagle River watersheds. There is a painted gauge on the bridge by the Savory Inn/Blackbear Inn or whatever it's called now, above Steven's Park. I can't remember what levels are good. Always be sure to do a good scout of the run from shore/bike path or road. Especially after a significant and quick change in water level. Wood likes to lodge in places that aren't visible from the frontage road. I.E. on the island behind the Cascade and around the Library above Lionshead.

Commercial rafting in Gilman is not forseeable in the future due to trespassing concerns and low railroad trestles. It's still a great after work kayak run, though. Especially if Homestake is running.


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