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Old 11-17-2005   #51
ZLSeth's Avatar
Dillon, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2000
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 132
Originally Posted by Surfpimp
Is anyone else disappointed we didn't get a full picture of the newby? Don't bogard the goods, this is just a tease.

"Believe me, my young friend, (said the water rat somlemnly), there is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing as simply messing about in boats. Simply messing...." -The Wind in the Willows
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Old 11-18-2005   #52
WhiteLightning's Avatar
Eagle County, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2002
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 928
Newby looks just like a blurry skinny version of me (or any other boater) when I have my Sweet helmet on

I might be scarred of that Newby, I dunno! Did you run that stuff in the photo from the walk down the stairs? Do you have good access to that Puma raft? How hard is it to pull a permit? You would have to be our safety boater, maybe would R2 it if I can get my buddy to come.

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Old 11-18-2005   #53
Front Range, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2005
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 274
Thanks for tossing me that rope in the middle of this really swingin' sausage fest, WL! Good thing I can count on you since good ole' FLOWTORCH's got a policy of just leaving a girl out to hang.... :P

Nah, seriously... the Puma belongs to Bill and Nancy, and they're here in Nashvegas with me-- which means access is pretty good (they have a mini-fleet of boats and rafts between the two of them). If you couldn't drum up a partner, I'd be happy to R2 it with you-- I'm not as "skinny" as pics make me look, I promise ; Nancy and I had to swing a rescue by ourselves when Bill took a swim, and I'm strong on a crew. If you can make it into the area for the release, chances are pretty high we can get you people and equipment if you need it. There's no guarantee I'll be up for it flying solo by April anyway (I'm always the last one to have confidence in my abilities in a kayak, but I guess part of that's my being a girl in a sport dominated by guys ). Chances are, though, we'll have safety boaters aplenty as it is (I think the last trip down, there were 8 or so of us-- regular paddle buddies and we met up with a handful of their friends at the campground??).

Oh, one little secret: Tallulah's been running "permit-free" recreational releases on a "trial" basis since about 2001.... I think someone somewhere forgot to tell them ithe operative word there was supposed to be 'trial,' though, so permits have kinda gone the way of the past..... I won't tell anyone if you don't--

Just let me know before you head this way, and we'll get ya' on the water one way or another!!

- Court
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Old 11-18-2005   #54
jonny water's Avatar
Geologist, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1991
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 583
In the past they always had a permit system. But some people with permits would never show on the days of their permit. THen, on a first-come first-serve basis, they would hand out all the extra permits on the morning of the release. When they did this, everyone who wanted to get onl, got on. It got to the point where you didn't need to apply for the permit, just show up early in the morning and get an unclaimed permit. When they noticed people doing this, they just bagged the permit system. Sweet pics...can't believe you took pics on the way down Oceana! You've got balls...or something like that??
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Old 11-19-2005   #55
Spits Hot Fire
N. Cascades, Washington
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 978
Sorry to leave you hangin out to dry wit all these sausage eatin beefcakes girl, damn internet cut short! So, with that said, spare me the pm's dudes, She Looks Good, thats all I'm sayin.
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Old 11-19-2005   #56
ZLSeth's Avatar
Dillon, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2000
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 132
Anybody else notice she signed her name this time?

newby, I think you've developed a fan club.

Anyway, its's good you made it back from that run in one piece! Thanks for the pics.
"Believe me, my young friend, (said the water rat somlemnly), there is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing as simply messing about in boats. Simply messing...." -The Wind in the Willows
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Old 11-19-2005   #57
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 31
gore creek and gilman

WL as for gilman and gore creek
Gore Creek and Gilman are definitely raftable (yet they see few rats) when the waters up gore creek has to be around 3'6" on the gauge and gilman should be pretty high too as there is metal in areas and it's nowhere you want to tear a boat. Gore creek is raftable from upper through lower although there is a portage from the stephens dog park to below the game fence as there are some snowmaking pipes and the afore mentioned fence wich are right at water surface but little dowd chute is a kick and most of the run has a tight and technical feeling.
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Old 11-19-2005   #58
WhiteLightning's Avatar
Eagle County, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2002
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 928
Thanks c-cat. I might pass on Gilman for now, but would like to check out Clear Creek and Gore Creek next spring. I've kayaked the upper part of Gore (creek, not Canyon!), and I used to live next to the dog park you mentioned. I haven't run that lower section, but I've done from Dowd down in the raft, and some in the kayak.

The one thing I was worried a little about is when Gore Creek comes up real good, might be some bridge problem spots in a raft?

Also, with a raft, you are saying portage starting at dog park instead of lower (for the pipe and the fence) because that is probably the only good eddy until Dowd big enough for a raft, right?

Do you guys know any place that rents Mini-mes or Pumas around here for doing some low volume R2 testing?
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Old 11-20-2005   #59
Tim Kennedy
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Avon, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1988
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 106
Rafting Gilman and Gore Creek


I work here in the area for Timberline Tours during the Summer months. We run commercial raft trips on Gore Creek when the conditions are right. In the past all of our trips on Gore Creek started at Ford Park parking lot and took out on the Eagle at River Run. In the springs of 95 and 96, i think we ran it well into the beginning of July. However, over the last few seasons, due to low water and lots of wood in the Creek we have run relatively few Gore Creek trips. The large woodpile on the river right side of the railroad trestle at the Eagle river confluence is a major hinderance. When Gore Creek is at good levels, it is too high to get under the center of the trestle. We used to be able to float through the gap on the right side coming into the Eagle at the Dowd Chute gauge. We always run with a safety kayaker who helps with the low pipes, game fence obtacles. The pipes at the west end of intermountain can be a hassle. There is a half of a raft size eddy on river left at the first pipe (low black pipe). You can snag some shore here with the assistance of a prepositioned person on shore catching the raft (safety kayaker). Pull the boat over the pipe and then get back in and ferry immediatley to river right. We had our shuttle driver catch the raft there. The passengers get on the bike path and walk 50 or so yards downstream to a one way game gate in the fence. The guide would R1 the raft down to the next pipe (high white pipe) and pass under the river right side, diving into the front compartment on the floor in the fetal position to get the bow of the raft under the pipe and avoid striking your head or shoulder on the pipe. Then eddy out on the right and pick up the passengers who have walked around. The kayaker would then go down to the game fence and lift one of the gate sections for the rafts to pass through, then close the gate and get back in his boat. The game fence was repeatedley damaged by logs during high water. We reattached sections of the fence many times with our own rope, wire or webbing. However, the old metal fence was taken out a couple of springs ago by a huge log, most likely the one on the right side of the railroad trestle. The new PVC pipe fence was much friendlier. Just float through and push the swinging pipes out of the way. Recently, some of the PVC on the river right side was lashed together with barbed wire, making that side unpassable. Check it out next spring before running.

The run starts out class II to III gets noticably more difficult and continuous after the water treatment plant, west of Lionshead. The rapid above the bike bridge behind the Lionshead Amoco is one of the hardest on the run. If you can't get under any of the brides on the run, it's too high. Get out and go run the upper Eagle. I've hit my head only once, on the bridge below the Cascade hotel at high water. Watch out for the sticky hole in the middle of the rapid above Steven's Park.

A high water option is to put in at the East Vail exit and take out at Steven's Park. You might have to swim under a bridge or two in the golf course if the river is really crankin'.

Gilman is good fun in a raft. We have R2ed it and Mongo even took an R4 down it once. We've never run a commercial trip there. The necessity to scout with commercial crews and the tresspassing issues involved with touching shore make commercial trips impossible. The water level for getting a raft down is a tight window. There has to be enough water to get through the tight channels but not so high that you can't squeeze under the railroad trestles. The first half of the run is class III- IV boogie water. After the old Belden mine site, the river picks up to bigger class IV-V drops. There is not much sharp debris in the main lines other than blasted rock. Most of the metal is along the banks or above water level (except an engine block in mid-channel behind a big square rock in the first mile) . But a swim on this run can be brutal and bruising.

As for other raft/creek runs. Lake Creek through and including the Paralyzer was rafted in the early nineties by Rick Covington, Josh and Zach Hubbard and others when Rick was running Twin Lakes Expeditions. We've R2ed Lower South Boulder Creek between Gross Res and Eldorado Canyon. Clear Creek Rafting runs commercial trips on Clear Creek from Lawson through Rigormortis. Tom Love and friends took six or more shredders through the Black Canyon a few years ago. Fred, Jack, Tim Keggerman and others ran shredders down Slate Creek including Wicked Wanda in the early nineties as well. Chris "Mongo" Reeder and Billy Mattison have R2ed Upper Death at low water and run a section of Black Gore Creek along I70, above the gorge. Shredders and small rafts routinely run Bailey.

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Old 11-21-2005   #60
Front Range, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2005
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 274
GLORIOUS raft carnage at Tallulah....!

Keep hitting "next" to get the progression.... WL, this right line thing (at Oceana) is looking more and more sketch every time I see someone try to run it in a raft...

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