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Old 09-28-2012   #51
Denver, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2004
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 3,097
I think creature crafts are a cool invention. Innovation is the backbone of whitewater paddling craft progression. When you think about rafts and think of all the different types that there are for different rivers or conditions (self bailers of all sizes, cats, shredders, j-rigs on the grand, sweep rigs on the middle fork, creature crafts) it makes sense to have a design that can run harder whitewater without some of the limitations other rafts have. Kayaks have had a similar evolution yielding a variety of designs, each with its own specialization.

My biggest complaint (speaking as a kayker) is that creature crafts take away the most exciting thing about rafting... which is of course seeing them flip. Bummer.

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Old 09-28-2012   #52
Dipshit with the most.
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Bellevue, Idaho
Paddling Since: 1991
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 2,496
This is how real water folk hit the river - anything else is overkill.


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Old 09-28-2012   #53
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 883

In addition to the wind problem I mentioned earlier, I also think they face some limitations in terms of carrying capacity. An equivalent 14-16 foot SB will be able to carry a respectable amount of personal and group gear, whereas the CC would seem to be pretty limited in that regard.

This is less a limitation on the fun to be had in one, as it is in the kind of contribution a CC will be able to make to a group enterprise. Not a criticism, but rather an observation on the type of prospective usage.


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Old 09-28-2012   #54
Seattle, Washington
Paddling Since: 1998
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 78
Nothing against Creature Crafts. I've paddled one once down Burnt Ranch Gorge at 10k cfs and thought it was pretty fun.

But to say "First Raft Descent of the Stikine" is simply inaccurate. It would be like taking a kayak down a section of river and claiming a "first canoe descent".

BR10G - Photo by Leif Anderson.
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Old 09-28-2012   #55
Snohomish, Washington
Paddling Since: 1995
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 22
CC's have a nice carrying capacity actually, it is just different. The Stikine trip was self-supported and all the gear went down the river with the crew. There has also been I believe 4 Grand Canyon trips, 2 of which were no other boats besides CCs. Most of the time when you see the vids of CCs running stuff, it is hitting the big stuff and taking out (NF Payette, Tumwater, Cross, BRG etc) and multi-day trips don't happen that often. We've never had a problem though, as far as I can recall, with not being able to carry all our own gear.
And Paul, who did u paddle with? is that Moose? And maybe you wanna join me and BarryDingle for a Sky trip in November? I see you're in the area.
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Old 09-28-2012   #56
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 883
Hi River Driver,

That capacity comment was not meant as a criticism -- more of a tip about planning for multi-day trips.

As you have said, it is a matter of recalibrating expectations for what the CC will be able to carry, relative to the amounts taken on a trip by a more typical craft.


Rich Phillips
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Old 09-28-2012   #57
lhowemt's Avatar
at my house, Montana
Paddling Since: 2020
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 4,345
I posted it as a RAFT first descent, and i still stand by that. A raft being an inflatable boat, round boat, cataraft, and ccraft. An ik could also be a raft by this definition, but i don't care to nit pick shit and worry about what was said vs done. The more i hear the snobs here the more i'm glad To be a dork and no wonder why i've never been cool enough to kayak (but i do now have a ducky). I've always believed "fashion is function" and appreciate some commentary by a seasoned boating friend "don't boat class V if you care about looking pretty". Obviously he's not a kayaker, we're rafters, catboaters, and even some ccrafters. We care about having fun, period, and having fun with great friends is the bomb. I guess kayaking is about looking good. And all these years i thought you guys were standing around on shore setting safety, apparently it's more of a beauty contest???
I am a river, babe - I've got plenty of time, I don't know where I'm going, I'm just following the lines..... - "We are water" by Shaye
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Old 09-29-2012   #58
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Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 311
Strap a monkey in a kayak and launch him on a class V run....I bet he dies.
Strap a monkey in an IK on the same run...I bet he dies.
Strap a monkey in a cat on the same run...I bet he dies.
Strap a monkey in a self bailer on the same run...I bet he dies.
Strap a monkey in a CC on the same run....he'll make it to the take out alive, if he doesn't die from a heart attack.
My theory is that the level of fun one receives from whitewater is proportional to the level of skill applied. For CC river runners ignorance is bliss.
At the end of the day we're all having a good time on the water( except for those poor monkeys).
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Old 09-29-2012   #59
Golden, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1975
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 535
cc's are just a very niche boat. 99.99% of rafters will be best served all around in a traditional raft/cat design. the idea or gist from previous cc proponent threads that everyone should own one due to the added "safety" designs is abit silly too. i can think of plenty of runs where simply the height of a cc is an incredible danger on an otherwise straight forward float for any other boat. ect,ect....... is that in your sales pitch?

also trying to dumb down and mass market class V is not going to end well.
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Old 09-29-2012   #60
Denver, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1995
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,239
.watched several CC videos......would partially amend my previous statements...seems to be a mixed bag.....some CC 'ers like River driver and Darren clearly do have more skill than given credit for ( we already knew Cramer was a badass in whatever craft)...... in other videos people were., shall we say very unimpressive....some showed skill in parts but just careening out of control on some drops ....running the STIKINE is a hell.of an accomplishment handicapped or may be easier to run the same stuff than in rafts or cats, but the good guys are running stuff so hard they would be destroyed in cool in the right hands but the last sentence of Upshitcreek 's post is a you make a small one man version that might be fun on the right smaller rivers?

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