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Old 01-24-2014   #21
The next zone, .
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,200
American Whitewater
Colorado Whitewater

I would give to these 2 first.

As far as the bad rep that TU gets IMO it is well earned.. One current example is that their rep to the CTF has has asked that all forms of boating be eliminated or banned on the Arkansas Headwaters just south of the town of Leadville Colorado... Ridiculous idea that sets a horrible precedent for any boatable water in Colorado.

A second is that they did not support the right to float push of a few years back.

Third is that TU has continually pushed to keep flows below boatable levels on the Arkansas River.

While they may do good other places from what I see and as a fishermen I am of the opinion that TU does very little to help boating on water here in Colorado. Also TU has very deep pockets or it is fair to say AW and CW could use the money more.

"I feel better than any other time when I am in the mountains and uh I cant explain it ya know...." - Shawn Farmer..........
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Old 01-24-2014   #22
Fort Collins, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1999
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 99
Hi Everyone - I was the person who originally suggested TU.

I'm going to preface a lot of this with - issues on rivers are subtle. I seriously doubt you could find two groups who place equal weight on all of the same values you as an individual might.

I personally place more emphasis on the natural habitat available for various river species. But I do like to boat and I believe it is RARE that the two collide - although it does happen. As someone else mentioned on this thread - I really hope you wont throw out the baby with the bathwater.

I thought the question was "Who do you support? Who is doing good work?" I never claimed TU's priorities were exactly aligned with boaters' priorities. Yes - their priority is preserving cold water fisheries. Again, I would venture to say that their priorities helps kayakers the majority of the time. And they definitely do good work.

The last post brought up three issues. I was fairly certain the individual was misinformed, so I asked the Director of the Colorado Water Project (a TU position) about them. Below are his responses. (I did not ask about the right to float issues).

"One current example is that their rep to the CTF has asked that all forms of boating be eliminated or banned on the Arkansas Headwaters just south of the town of Leadville Colorado... Ridiculous idea that sets a horrible precedent for any boatable water in Colorado."
Sometimes TU chapters or individuals say things in the name of TU that are inconsistent with our organizational position. It’s unfortunate, but we can’t control it. That said, I really doubt that anyone from TU has advocated for elimination of boating on the Arkansas River. That would be ludicrous. It is certainly not our organizational position. As an organization, we are all about recreational use of rivers.

2. "Third is that TU has continually pushed to keep flows below boatable levels on the Arkansas River."

I can also tell you that TU (as an organization) is a signatory to – and a strong supporter of – the Arkansas River Voluntary Flow Management Program. That program calls for augmentation of flows above natural levels during the summer in order to support recreational boating, even though those artificially high flows that are possible because of imports from the Fryingpan River are not necessarily in the best interest of trout. As a compromise, the VFMP also calls on water managers to target flows of 250 cfs during the fall and winter. 250 cfs is optimal leading up to and during the fall brown trout spawn and during egg incubation during the winter. But 250 is less than optimal for boating. There is sometimes some negotiating around the edges of the VFMP, and maybe that has been misconstrued or misunderstood as TU pushing to keep flows below boatable levels. But, again, our organizational position is that we support the VFMP – with its artificially high flows during the summer and more moderate flows during the fall and winter – as a compromise between the needs of boaters and the needs of fish.

I hope this helps clarify TUs position on some of these issues.

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Old 01-24-2014   #23
lmyers's Avatar
Buena Vista, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2005
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 4,207
That is an unsatisfactory response from an uninformed individual. The suggestion has been made, several times in my limited time attending the meetings. If you want more specifics its Fred Rasmussen suggesting that boating should be banned above Granite, and if you look at the records and the facts significant water was moved over the 2011/12 winter at the request of DOW/CPW/TU despite a drought, in favor of the fishery over the summer recreation. In this instance it came back to bite them because the drought was so bad, but don't forget it, because they will push this agenda again.
GARNA’s mission is to foster stewardship of the resources of the greater Arkansas River region through education, volunteerism and experiences.
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Old 01-24-2014   #24
Salida, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1998
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 45
I don't know how all the different TU programs interact, but I will say that I think the Western Water Project is doing good work in the Colorado River Basin. They helped upgrade a dangerous diversion dam on the Gunnison by Delta and have numerous projects to improve streamflows in Colorado, Utah, and Wyoming. Good projects for the river.
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Old 01-24-2014   #25
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Sandy, Utah
Paddling Since: 1997
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 3,120
Utah Rivers Council
"We are all visitors to this time, this place. We are just passing through. Our purpose here is to observe, to learn, to grow, to love....and then we return home."
Australian Aboriginal Proverb
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Old 01-24-2014   #26
Arvada (Denver), Colorado
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 250
Originally Posted by cmharris View Post
Who do you support? Who is doing good work? I am currently not a member of any group but I need to change that. The two I'm aware of, at least through their website, are Idaho Rivers United and American Whitewater. I'm sure there are more. Thanks.
For stream access and use rights advocacy:

Montana- Public Land Water Access -
On January 16,2014, PLWA won a major public bridge access case and further clarified the overall Curran stream use law and 2009 House Bill HB 190 Clarify Public Bridge Access, both of which are now law.

Utah - Utah Stream Access Coalition - also Facebook
Currently, USAC is involved with two navigable waters and Public Trust based lawsuits and an access/use legislative bill to be introduced within the next couple of weeks.

Although presently inactive, and since you are in Oregon - Common Waters of Oregon - Common Waters of Oregon | Preserving Oregon rivers as common highways and forever free."
In 2010, Common Waters tried to move 2010 Senate Bill SB 1060 that would have clarified stream use. This bill has excellent model language to adapt for here in Colorado.

Nationally, National Organization of Rivers (NOR) advocates for water access and use and has written a book about these 2 issues.

In Montana, both MT TU and MT Wildlife Federation actively moved MT HB 190 Public Bridge Access to enactment, so they also may deserve your support.

Here in Colorado, CTU, access-wise, may be supportive of expanding the existing, permitted Colorado Parks and Wildlife hunting "Walk In Access" program to include boating and fishing over private upland. Otherwise, CTU primarily advocates for stream and trout conservation and preservation, if those are your advocacy interests.

Any or all of these groups deserve active support if by "advocacy" you mean access to/from or use of streams for all lawful water dependent outdoor recreational activities.
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Old 01-25-2014   #27
Fort Collins, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1999
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 99
I will look into this on Monday. Thankyou for bringing up the specific person.

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