Public Comment Needed For Upper Ark! - Page 4 - Mountain Buzz
 



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Old 06-21-2016   #31
 
Boulder, Colorado
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Really! Aren't the quotas just to right-size the infrastructure!?! They aren't actually talking about banning floating a particular section of public river!?! That's just cray! Doesn't it just mean they are not going to install infrastructure to support the boating community (which is probably fine on this particular stretch)?

Does the quota mean I am going to have to go through permit BS to run Royal Gorge, Numbers or Browns? What happens if the number of users is exceeded?

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Old 06-21-2016   #32
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lmyers View Post
Most of the items regarding improvements and expansions of facilities and infrastructure can go either way depending on your opinion, BUT the one item we should all speak up about is the proposed reduction of private boater capacity in section 1A to ZERO!

1A is a subpar stretch of river with a very short window of opportunity to float, from the confluence with Lake Fork down to the highway 24 bridge, well north of Granite.... but I know several folks from Twin Lakes and Leadville who use the stretch as a beginner training ground.

The reduction of capacities to 0 in this stretch would allow the AHRA to ticket private boaters who float it, and set an unacceptable precedent for the State Park.
Pesky fishermen wanting their own stretch of the river
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Old 06-21-2016   #33
 
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Wondering same as Pearan. How are they enforcing the boaters per day??? Who is counting this? If I show up at 5 pm on a Sat. at the numbers am I going to be chased off because they already met the quota? Permits? I don't understand and was not even aware that there was a bpd enforcement currently
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Old 06-21-2016   #34
 
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It is my understanding at this point the quota is established, data is collected by volunteers/officials at put ins/takeouts, and if the quota is exceeded x amount of days a year then the idea of a permit system will be discussed and implemented in a future planning, such as this one. That is why I usually comment along the lines of no change needed and say why. I say things like I dont feel crowded on the river, I dont feel like I have seen it degrade over the years, etc. This is mostly true because I try and avoid peak weekends and peak use times. It is also why I try and avoid and encourage other boaters to avoid the busy weekends, on browns especially. If you just have to boat browns on memorial day weekend I encourage you to launch super early or late. I am sure (and hope) Logan will correct me if I am wrong. I only kind of pay attention to all this though I hope to get more involved in the future. I really hope we can keep the ark from formal permitting. As boaters we need to manage the resource if we don't want someone else to.
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Old 06-21-2016   #35
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Thanks for reminding us Logan! Especially about the risk of loosing section 1A!
Survey filled out.
Also good point by Zach about browns, I feel we can do a lot to manage the resource, and avoid more rules and loss of freedom. More government regulation only as a last resort, if the resource is truly threatened by over use.
There is no reason us privates can't put on later in the day and avoid the commercial trips all together, it's an awesome time of day to run that canyon anyway!
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Old 06-21-2016   #36
 
Aurora, Colorado
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As marginal a section as 1A may be for boating, it's the idea that they can just go ahead and shut down a section to all boats that burns me. What's next? Rincon to Vallie Bridge? It's great fishing there- why not?

It's right up there with the fish people applying for, and winning permits on the Middle Fork during the season when they don't re-issue cancellations, just to keep boaters off the river.

I commented on the form that in all my years as a commercial guide on the Ark that I've never seen any section that I've been on too crowded (private or commercial) to float reasonably.
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Old 06-21-2016   #37
 
Florence, Colorado
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Thanks for the heads up logan. Did and done.
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Old 06-22-2016   #38
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!"

Quote:
Originally Posted by climbdenali View Post
As marginal a section as 1A may be for boating, it's the idea that they can just go ahead and shut down a section to all boats that burns me. What's next? Rincon to Vallie Bridge? It's great fishing there- why not?

It's right up there with the fish people applying for, and winning permits on the Middle Fork during the season when they don't re-issue cancellations, just to keep boaters off the river.

I commented on the form that in all my years as a commercial guide on the Ark that I've never seen any section that I've been on too crowded (private or commercial) to float reasonably.
Ya, I've been sharing the river with fishermen for years, I do everything I can to be polite, respectful, and not disturb there experience. It's total bullshit to close a section of waterway down to one group, just so another group can have it all to themselves.
Kinda like the slogan management agency's have been encouraging of "share the trail".
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Old 06-22-2016   #39
 
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Originally Posted by jennifer View Post
Wondering same as Pearan. How are they enforcing the boaters per day??? Who is counting this? If I show up at 5 pm on a Sat. at the numbers am I going to be chased off because they already met the quota? Permits? I don't understand and was not even aware that there was a bpd enforcement currently
The process of counting boats is inefficient at best. Right now if a stretch of river surpasses the boat per day capacity it triggers a process of use allocation:

* Exceeding prescribed carrying capacities more than 5 times in a season will trigger use allocation the following year for the affected stretch of river. Use allocation will be applied only to the user group that exceeded capacities.

* At the time use allocations are implemented on each segment, place limits on maximum number of boats per group and on launches in each segment to reduce crowding and congestion, promote visitor safety and enhance resource appreciation.

Up to this point the AHRA has consistently chosen to amend or transfer capacity numbers from one user group to another to avoid triggering use allocation, but it is there in black and white in the current Management Plan.

If the carrying capacity for 1A is reduced to zero there is no need to physically count boats per day, any boat on the water is exceeding capacity and would (I assume) be subject to a fine for participating in a prohibited recreational activity....
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Old 06-22-2016   #40
 
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Oh, and to answer the rest of your questions...

Both volunteers and staff count boaters. They don't do it everyday, but days they know from the past that tend to be busy they will count heads on the stretches that will push capacity levels. They counted heads on Numbers at Paddlefest and we exceeded capacity for what I think is the first time in history. They will count at Hecla several times a season, as well as down at Salida East and Rincon.

There is language regarding permits in the Management Plan, but the only talk of permits going on right now is the possibility of a campsite register for Browns Canyon. My suggestion and preference on this was to increase the number of campsites before initiating a registration system. That is the first step in the wrong direction in my opinion, and I would prefer to have it continue to remain first come, first served.
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