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Old 05-02-2015   #1
Lakewood, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2000
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 74
Permit Drunk....Thoughts?

OK I have a river dilemma. Thought I would throw it up here on the Buzz and see if I'm crazy or like minded. Situation: I was invited on a MFS trip in July. Yes great permit, great date and the TL is a good guy. I have a boat and all of the group gear and a good list of boater friends that would obviously want to join in on the fun. The TL only wants his friends and family on the trip and wants them in my boat so they don't need to rent gear. I asked to have a buddy of mine (who has gear and a boat) to join and got denied as the TL only wants 11 people on the trip (his friends/family who have no gear or experience). Kinda split between sucking it up and enjoying the MFS in July or telling this guy I'm not a guide for his friends/family and he can go F himself. Thoughts?

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Old 05-02-2015   #2
Rockgizmo's Avatar
Colorado Springs, Colorado
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 77
Permit Drunk....Thoughts?

You're group is already over the 8 day trip size. So, one more person won't reduce the time on the river. A few concerns would be lack of experience on the trip. Another would be the date you put in on. If it's mid to late July the river flow could impact you're trip and an extra boat to spread out the gear would be nice. Hard choice to make.

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Old 05-02-2015   #3
Pinecliffe, Colorado
Paddling Since: 05
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 447
I'd go and charge a grand a person on your boat. In seriousness though I'd bail I can't stand making small talk toting people around on my vacation and at the take you get a thanks see ya again maybe someday. I could see taking a family member or two and your friend but not the guys whole family. No gear or expericne f that sounds like a headache a paid river guide deals with at least custys get gear provided. You'll proboaly have to teach them everything it'd be like rookie training with customers. If you bail he'll realize that he should have let you bring someone but even then its a bit much to ask and deal with IMO. But I feel like an a hole even asking someone to have my dog on their boat while I IK.
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Old 05-02-2015   #4
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RFV, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1977
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 857
Sounds like a lose / lose situation. If you go, you will rig, row, derig, set camp and generally be working the entire time, while his "Family" gets to enjoy having a vacation. If you turn it down, you lose out on the trip. Try to make him see it as win / win. Be honest with him about you questions as to him and his families experience and lack of gear.
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Old 05-02-2015   #5
Sleepless's Avatar
Vail, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2011
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 157
Originally Posted by brendodendo View Post
Sounds like a lose / lose situation. If you go, you will rig, row, derig, set camp and generally be working the entire time, while his "Family" gets to enjoy having a vacation. If you turn it down, you lose out on the trip. Try to make him see it as win / win. Be honest with him about you questions as to him and his families experience and lack of gear.

I'd bail. Sounds like a bag of cats.
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Old 05-02-2015   #6
Dipshit with the most.
carvedog's Avatar
Bellevue, Idaho
Paddling Since: 1991
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 2,496
I am sorry but your friend is bullshit. Inviting someone only to have them carry his friends and family….. weak sauce.
I am putting together a pretty large trip. Numbers could be an issue, but if someone is bringing their raft, gear and effort to the trip they deserve to invite someone or two along.

Everyone is respectful and runs it past me. I also don't put someone in a raft without making sure the boatman wants and is compatible with.

You will be in very close contact with these folks for a week. If you come into the trip already feeling a bit taken advantage or at least in dilemma - I can't see it being awesome. I shoot for awesome. This sounds like OK or decent at best.

And holding the line at 11……I just don't get it.
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Old 05-02-2015   #7
Bend, Oregon
Paddling Since: 2008
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 113
Your friend is not going to have the trip he thinks he is going to have if you don't get a few more boats. If you do it his way and it goes bad it will be your fault. You need to be honest with him and he needs to trust you.
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Old 05-02-2015   #8
Longmont, Colorado
Paddling Since: 98
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 328
Just tell it to him like it is. Sounds like you appreciate the invite and will be willing to help with his family but you'd feel more comfortable with some more experience on the river with you. I don't think that's unreasonable. He needs to know you're not liking feeling used. If he's a good friend he'll understand.
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Old 05-02-2015   #9
Randaddy's Avatar
Eastern Slope, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1980
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,404
I'd back out of the trip. Don't spoil a beautiful raft trip and a friendship. It sounds like your friend thinks he's paying you for your equipment and services by letting you go. There will be more invites and better water years....
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Old 05-02-2015   #10
Salida, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1986
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 727
The concern is 100% valid. My experience tells me that the closer people are to you, the more difficult passengers they are. And nobody is closer than family, add inexperience to the equation and it compounds. Good idea to bring it to discussion and resolve it now, I hope it works out favorably!

Odds are the TL has seen or will see the thread...

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