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Old 09-01-2015   #61
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 130

It's the internet and I hate office work

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Old 09-01-2015   #62
slavetotheflyrod's Avatar
Littleton, Colorado
Paddling Since: 98
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 387
Originally Posted by SROB34 View Post
We're still talking about this?
Stop belittling everyone.

Why you gotta hate?

You weren't there, so don't judge.

I'll bet you don't even go boating, you probably sit in front of the computer in your moms basement all day.

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Old 09-01-2015   #63
Andy H.'s Avatar
Wheat Ridge, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1995
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 2,909
Originally Posted by wyosam View Post
I didn't see any problem with the OP's scenario (other than being a general shit show- but that happens)- There was not a rescue, just a gear recovery, and I suppose clearing the line for whoever else may be coming down the river (I have no idea if there is another line). They had their people out of the water, and it seems like they mentioned some dry clothes. Used a spot to let someone know whats going on, let authorities know they aren't needed. Sure, they could have been better prepared to recover gear, but from the sounds of the scenario, I'm not sure what they could have had along- there's only so many ways to get rope on a raft that's surfing out of reach. Sending something down to knock it out (like another party's fishing raft) is a reasonable approach.

You must run some pretty tight trips if you are feel confident calling our group a shitshow. As I mentioned above, we had plenty of extra gear and experience to use it. I'll add that we also had extra food, water, first aid kits on each boat, a pin kit in the group, a lightweight sleeping bag on my boat, and about 45+/- years combined boating experience among us, including experiences on both sides of rescue situations. And also plenty of advanced first aid training with experience using it. If needed, we could've stabilized a hypothermic or injured person and spent the night out with them while others went for help or to safety, or we could've just called in a rescue using the SPOT if there was a really bad injury. That day ours was a group that could have (and have before) saved the day if we'd encountered an actual shitshow group in actual distress.

It seems you want to make this all about frivolous calls to SAR, and while you're at it, judge our group as a "general shitshow." If it makes you feel like an Eagle Scout to judge or second guess us, go for it. You can also bask in the smugness of being the last self-reliant man in an America gone soft and where everyone calls in the SAR when they get a blister 100 ft from the car. Keep telling yourself that and enjoy it. As stated above, at no time did we even consider alerting SAR or other help outside of a spouse + friend. Over the two hours the boat was getting surfed in the hole, there was always someone standing by with a whistle to warn other boats coming down the river of the hazard, or to alert the other members of our group in the first boat downstream if the stuck raft flushed free so they could recover it.

The point of all this is that even on a run most folks take lightly, even with experienced boaters, shit can happen. Had we been in the wilderness with little or no prospect of other boaters coming down, communication with the world, or of us hiking out, we would've been ready and able to take the risks required to free the boat using any of several plans we formulated while we watched the Mini-me spin donuts in that hole. Since it wasn't necessary we kept everyone safe and avoided needlessly letting the situation cascade into a more dire event that could've ended badly and actually required calling out SAR or EMS.

This stretch of river is basically a Class II float with one Class IV- hole and a couple of Class II+ holes at other diversions along the way. We found the major hole the hard way. As Xena will vouch, it's got consequences. We used our judgement and avoided risking another swimmer in the hole who may not have been as lucky as Xena. Lots of folks run this without incident. That's great for them. We didn't on this occasion.

Regarding Trespassing:

Something I'd like to add to my post above: This run is notorious for having intolerant landowners. While the landowner reps our group dealt with were gracious and helpful to us, many boaters have reported being arrested for merely "touching the river banks or bed" which is considered trespassing in Colorado. One of the kayakers at the put in even warned that guys who would be taking photos in case we accidentally trespassed once we entered private land below the kayaker takeout.

This discourages scouting due to risk of being arrested for trespassing. It also affected how I reacted to the flip. When my partner and I looked back and saw Catwoman and her partner go in, I pulled into the first eddy but was just out of sight of the flipped boat. When it didn't come down the river, I made the mistake of letting concern for trespassing keep me from fully landing and running back upstream with a throw bag where I should've assisted sooner. Lesson learned.

Nothing in the world is more yielding and gentle than water. Yet it has no equal for conquering the resistant and tough. The flexible can overcome the unbending; the soft can overcome the hard. - Lao Tse
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Old 09-01-2015   #64
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 130
Dude, post #11 Catwomen
No doubt it was shit show
Something happened. Somebody posted about it on the interest. Others questioned the actions and other to be expected Monday Morning Quarterbacking. Nobody got hurt, no body went to jail. Life is good.

That said. Two people swam. The boat got surfed for two hours. Someone almost got hypothermia. You didn't self rescue. You trespassed on a section where landowner tensions are high. That's most peoples definition of shit show.

You gotta own that. I'll boat with you any time. Give you a beer out of my cooler.

But you fucked up. You gotta own that. Nobody's saying you were not prepared or experienced.
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Old 09-01-2015   #65
Louisville, Colorado
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 520
I think "shit show" has different meanings to different people. I would call any river flipping, unintended swimming, unintended surfing a "shit show".

That said we were prepared for a shit show, more prepared than many. We chose the most conservative route out of the situation that we could find, and had the tools and mechanisms in place to make that choice. We lost no lives and had no major injuries. We did just fine in the scheme of things that could have happened. But I still feel like one can't help but look at the photos, think "shit show", and LOL.
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Old 09-01-2015   #66
Andy H.'s Avatar
Wheat Ridge, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1995
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 2,909
Originally Posted by catwoman View Post
I think "shit show" has different meanings to different people. I would call any river flipping, unintended swimming, unintended surfing a "shit show".
Oops. Guess we should have huddled up on this. I think of a shit show as the drunk clowns in pool toy rafts launching from Pumphouse at 6500 cfs with bottled beer, ski jackets for PFDs, cut-off jeans and T-shirts, and canoe paddles, etc. etc. ...Or me on the Poudre last year.

OK, now time to get out and work off some of that righteous indignation...
Nothing in the world is more yielding and gentle than water. Yet it has no equal for conquering the resistant and tough. The flexible can overcome the unbending; the soft can overcome the hard. - Lao Tse
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Old 09-01-2015   #67
caverdan's Avatar
C. Springs, Colorado
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,443
The caves of Williams Canyon are back open to the club after Labor Day.......let's keep in touch, Catwoman. And yes.....the shitshow was in full swing just down river of "the canyon of LaGore". All ya'll did was flip a pickle and swim a couple of cute girls...... nothing wrong with that. All's good in paradise.

Cold, wet, stuck for two hours, hypothermia hovering near by.......that's an every day cave trip to some of us. I think some of you negative weenies are armchair cavers too. Ya'll sound just like a couple of cavers we all know.
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Old 09-01-2015   #68
bluebtr's Avatar
silverthorne, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1992
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 85
The only shit show is this thread, everyone involved should consider themselves lucky they weren't all arrested, the BV Ranch personnel must be mellowing with age, 10 years ago the sheriff would have been called and any and all gear would have been confiscated and the perps would have been all on their way to Sulpher to spend the night to see the judge. Call for HELP!?! Take responsibilty for your own ignorance and limitations fer cryan out loud, and at that level you could walkout on the diversion and pull them off. Flame away.
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Old 09-01-2015   #69
Bismarck, North Dakota
Paddling Since: 2012
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 207
Andy h and catowoman, I'd boat with your crew any day. I'll stop right here and not going to feed the river trolls.
Remember what the door mouse said.......................feed your head.........feed your head
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Old 09-01-2015   #70
Jackson, Wyoming
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 276
Yes, when I said shit show, it was as quoted above- as I said in another post, I didn't really see anything wrong with how the situation was handled- I just got off on a tangent related to a link someone else posted. Forgive me, I just had my knee fixed and I'm grumpy cause I cant do anything.

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