Federal Land Give-Away Starts - Page 3 - Mountain Buzz

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Old 01-10-2017   #21
Park City, Utah
Paddling Since: 1982
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Mark and Sarah, thank you for a reasonable and thoughtful response.

mvhyde, read the article. They want to hand it over to the states, not sell it to them. Your bashing of someone for disrespecting the president-elect was too comical for words. I'll respect the guy when he earns it, but I'm not holding my breath.

I have no problem with responsible grazing or extraction, but that said, I don't want a oil derrick, shale oil mine, or gold mine next to the rivers I run.

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Old 01-10-2017   #22
Eagle Mountian, Utah
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Let me be clear, I could give a damn if this is the work of Trump, Obama, Rob Bishop, Elvis, or Bigfoot. Handing over land to the states does the federal government no good. It will not put a penny toward the debt and simply result in a net loss for the owners of the land (you and me by the way not the federal government). Selling the land to the states might result in some money for the federal government but still a huge loss for the American people. Several studies have shown that states cannot afford management of these lands unless oil and gas prices quadruple. Look it up its out there. The first time there is a fire they will no longer be in the black and most western states have laws which say they must run land at a profit. That means selling it. Extraction industries don't like hunters, anglers, river runners, or campers on their land and it will become their land. I hope your ready to gaze longingly at your favorite stretch of river through a chain link fence.

I criticize Rob Bishop not because of his party (I am of the party of healthy landscapes and wildlife by the way and could care less for the Democrats or the Republicans). I criticize him for ramrodding through an issue that steals land from you and me and hands it over to oil and gas companies who, by the way are almost always big campaign contributors to the politicians who support these measures. Its not a partisan issue its theft plain and simple.
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Old 01-11-2017   #23
Willimina, Willimina, OR
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Best Dialog on the Buzz Awards 2017

These are mighty fine problems to negotiate and worthy of out attention.
Gary Foam gary@rowframe.com
Self Proclaimed Lobbyist for .........Whitewater
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Old 01-12-2017   #24
Durango, Colorado
Join Date: May 2007
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It's not about the grazing...

Consider this scenario. In a partisan rush to ram an agenda forward Bishop et.al get federal lands transferred to state control. It happens so fast no one sees it coming and we don't quite know how to react. In the meantime the states quickly see an opportunity to finally make some money and or realize they can't afford to maintain the vast land they just inherited for free. So...they look for the highest bidder. Well, here's the rub.

The Chinese are ravenous for western land and real-estate. See here:

Also, the Chinese are buying up some of the largest American companies should there be a need to have a major western land purchase run through an "American" company. See here:
The Biggest American Companies Now Owned by the Chinese | Fortune.com

So, while we sit around and argue about mining and ranching, the Chinese and whoever else has the money buys our western land heritage right out from under us. Gone, forever, to the free market. Sound good? Didn't think so. Let's keep the land where it is and continue to bicker about who gets to use it. At least it will still be ours.
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Old 01-13-2017   #25
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One of the repubs primary goals is to reduce the size of the federal gov. So in a simple minded manner, they think if you reduce the land holdings that need management, you reduce the size of gov (can I hear a hallelujah!). I disagree with this approach, which as many have pointed out is an economic loser that ends with lands in corporate control from fire sales and loss of public use. Somehow the economic argument needs to be used to fight this insanity.
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Old 01-14-2017   #26
Arvada (Denver), Colorado
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Federal Land Give-Away Starts

To most effectively and efficiently walk rather than talk on this public land sale or other issue of interest, read, learn and then act via IndivisibleGuide.com .

Sent from my iPhone using Mountain Buzz
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Old 01-14-2017   #27
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Here is an example of a form letter written by Scott Miller of The Wilderness Society. Feel free (in fact please do) copy, edit and send to your choice representative(s). If you need email addresses I am happy to provide them...

January X, 2017

Dear Senator,

On behalf of conservation organizations and our millions of members across the country, we are writing to strongly urge you to OPPOSE any “blocking new parks bills” like S. 33 or attempts to repeal protections for new parks and monuments.

Less than a week into the new Congress, multiple bills have been filed to essentially gut the law that first protected nearly half of our national parks – the Antiquities Act. Additionally, Members of Congress in in both chambers have suggested their intention to advance efforts to repeal protections for existing parks and monuments – with the House even voting to make it easier to give away our public lands.

Since its inception over a hundred years ago, the Antiquities Act has been one of our nation’s most critical conservation tools for preserving our nation’s most important public lands and waters. Our national parks and monuments and other protected public lands and waters unite all Americans by protecting our shared American heritage for future generations to enjoy. The sheer diversity of historic, cultural, and natural treasures that have been protected by the Antiquities Act is the reason why hundreds of groups representing sportsmen, cultural heritage organizations, evangelicals, conservation, recreation businesses, historic preservation, and many others all oppose efforts to undermine this vital law.

The American people, including the millions of members we represent are overwhelmingly opposed to efforts to block new parks and repeal protections for the places they love. According to Colorado College’s Conservation in the West Poll, 80% of western voters support “future presidents continuing to protect existing public lands as national monuments.” This poll reinforces other surveys that document widespread public opposition to congressional attacks on new parks. In a December 2014 Hart Research Poll, 90% of Americans support the permanent protection of some public lands, monuments, wildlife refuges and wilderness. Americans want more protected public lands, not less! We believe that the Senate should listen to the American public and celebrate our national parks system and work towards making it even more inclusive of our nation’s diverse history and cultures, not attack the ability to add to it!

Our organizations and the diverse array of members and interests we represent are united in our support for our national parks and monuments. Our national parks and monuments protect our uniquely American heritage and we stand with the overwhelming majority of our fellow Americans in defending them from efforts to block new parks and repeal protections for existing parks and monuments. We urge you to stand with our national parks and monuments and OPPOSE all bills to block new parks bills – like S. 33 – and attempts to repeal protections for existing monuments.


The mission of Friends of Browns Canyon is To protect, conserve, and enhance the ecological and aquatic resources of the wildlands within Browns Canyon.
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Old 01-14-2017   #28
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Denver,, exhaustion
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Originally Posted by heytat View Post
LOL That is what my trumpette friends said to defend the orange dictator in discussions of this exact topic.....


Bigly sad....


bet he doesn't do to much of it on public land like you and I
"We should restore the practice of dueling. It might improve manners around here" -Edward Abbey
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Old 01-15-2017   #29
Salt Lake City, Utah
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We are speaking of the commons here. Read Noam Chomsky. Pay attention. Read Abbey.

Privatise everything. Health Care. Education. Privatization means profit is the sole motive. Our landscape is the last thing we all really share here in the West.

We give that away, we have nothing. Just ask a native american about that.

Good luck!
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Old 01-15-2017   #30
Denver, Colorado
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Elinor Ostrum.
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