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Old 04-13-2010   #11
yakkeranna's Avatar
Canberra, OZ
Paddling Since: 2003
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 168
I have an agent 6.0; I'm 5'6, 130. I really like it, and I do more river running in it than playboating. It can get sqirley in eddylines (but don't most playboats?) but it hits and rides bigger holes pretty good. I honestly don't think it leaks very much either... no drainplug, so maybe that's why? Never tried a kingpin, though, so I'm not sure how the two boats compare.

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Old 04-13-2010   #12
Silverthorne, Colorado
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 93
still for sale

i really need to get rid of my g. ride. ive dropped the price down to $250! Awesome river-running playboat for women!!!

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Old 04-14-2010   #13
Ames, Iowa
Paddling Since: 1983
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 7
110, 5'2"
"probably river running in my playboat would be an honest answer"

If you want to learn to do flatwater vertical moves, you should look at playboats that list your weight as at or near the top end of the weight range. That would tend to be boats of under 40 gallons (WaveSport Fuse 35, Jackson Shooting Star, Jackson Fun 1.5 - at 5'2" you may or may not fit any of these according to your inseam and foot size). Many people do not find playboats in which they are at the top end of the weight range to be fun river runners. (One visual cue for a sufficiently low voume boat for the paddler for easiest learning of flatwater vertical moves: water line when paddler is in the boat is very near, at, or just over the edge delineating the sides of the boat from the top deck along both the bow and stern.)

If you want to surf, spin, and river run, any playboat in which you fit well (boat moves when you move) and which you feel that you can control well should be fine (especially edge control). Consider boat desk heights and boat widths as well as boat suggested weight ranges. (For non-vertical moves such as surfing and spinning, well fitting river runners should also work fine. They just have a bit more mass to move and length to deal with, plus they weigh more for carrying.)

If you want to include river current assisted vertical moves (cartwheels, loops), you need to consider the boat's volume distribution and the boat's pivot point with you in it. Boats with considerably more volume in the bow than the stern can provide more "pop" for looping but can also be much more difficult to bow initiate for cartwheels. If your body mass is too far back in the boat relative to its volume distribution (behind the boat's ideal pivot point), you'll be more likely to flop on your face when going for cartwheels. If the boat is too wide or the deck height to high for you to readily control (and change) edging, you'll have trouble doing play moves (carving, stern squirts, cartwheels, etc.). I'd suggest widths of less than 24.5 inches. You might consider developing a list of boats being considered with their volumes, suggested weight ranges, widths, deck heights, and lengths.
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Old 04-14-2010   #14
Fallingup's Avatar
Summit County, and Idaho
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 261
"weldernot" ---Thank you for the plethora of infomation.

Everyone else--- You have been very helpful and all info greatly appreciated!
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Old 04-14-2010   #15
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 35
I really like my Star. Super easy to initiate in flat water and still a decent down-river boat. I also really liked the Project. The Agent felt really short nosed to me. It was hard for me to get over that. I'm not a great playboater, but both the Star and Project made me feel like I could be. Both made me feel like if I was able to attempt something it wouldn't be the boat holding me back.
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Old 04-15-2010   #16
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bc, CA
Paddling Since: 2007
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 316
Jackson Star, all.. the way. I am 5'5" 130 lbs. I use it for and river running, and yes OH! so easy to roll.
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Old 04-16-2010   #17
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 2
For women, for men, a playboat's a playboat...

Women tend to be smaller and have a lower center of gravity but how would that translate to a specific design different then what a male would use? Most models are available in 2 or 3 sizes. ???

BTW, I'm 155 lbs and love the Kingpin 6.2. A while back I bought a used, beat-up kingpin and boated it for 2 years. It had a bunch of aftermarket outfitting that I didn't like so I thought what the heck, maybe I'll buy a brand new boat. I demoed the 2009 Star and thought it was ok, but didn't like it as much as my old Kingpin. Outdoorplay was selling brand new (2009) kingpins for 700.00 so I bought one. What are the Stars going for? Around 1200.00? I couldn't be happier. Yeah, it's not the darling of the year but I just don't believe that each successive model kayak is better the one one before it. Dagger produced a great design with the Kingpin. (the 09 model is dry with my current sprayskirt BTW) And it's pretty amazing how well it also runs rivers.

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Old 04-16-2010   #18
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 566

I'd agree with the ladies here that a Kingpin seems to work great as a women's playboat and as a river runner. The 6.2 was a little small for me, so I used to throw it around like a mouse to a cat back in the day. I've been in an Agent 6.2 for the last few years and have enjoyed the upgrade, but I'd guess you'd fit the Agent 6.0 better as it's a bit bigger than the kingpin.
Dagger's tend to leak, get used to it, though I have heard that recent modifications to the cockpit rim may have helped Agent wasn't too bad unless and the lack of a drainplug is a plus.

Though I might not agree with Liquid Guys reccomendation, his point is valid in that the Kingpin lacks some of the performance characteristics that the modern boats' possess. Modern hull design like that of the Star & Pyrahna Molan make achieving some of these tricks much easier.

Take the beta everyone is offering up, see where it measures up with what you want to do, and go from there. There are certainly some great deals on used boats in the swap (I have an Agent 6.2 for sale, but that's too big for you) that allow you to spend a few more dollars on other things like gas and beer, but there's definitely an allure to shiny new plastic as well.
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Old 05-02-2010   #19
Vail, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2001
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 41
I love my star! I also used to have the smallest EZG which was great for both river running and basic playing...just a little long for playparks. Good luck!
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Old 05-03-2010   #20
Buena Vista, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2005
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 27
Project 45

I am 5' 2" and 105 and absolutely love my Project 45. It is one of the only playboats I have tried that is small enough for me.

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