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Old 12-17-2007   #1
 
Steamboat Springs, Colorado
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Survey: Should Mining CO's sponsor WW Festivals?

Hello everyone,

I am trying to solicit opinions on an ethical dilema presented by the potential sponsorship of the 2008 Gunnison Whitewater Festival by the Lucky Jack Mining Company (partnership of US Energy Corp and Kobex Resources). While the festival is in need of funding to secure its future, there is no clear correlation between this sponsorship and the interests and intent of the festival.

A little history: these two companies are proposing a molydenum mine on Mt. Emmons (Crested Butte's backyard mountain) at the top of our watershed. Though they claim impacts will be minimal, there is a lot of other information to the contrary. More information can be found at High Country Citizens Alliance @ High Country Citizens' Alliance - Home, US Energy @ U.S. Energy Corp., or Kobex Resources @ Kobex Resources Ltd. - Home.

The features at Gunnison's Whitewater Park have recently and finally been repaired. For the first year in a few we have the chance to host a Whitewater Festival that will once again have regional appeal. It is our intent to blow it up this year in hopes of securing more funding, organization, and commitment to this festival's future, the Park itself, and our RICD water right.

Traditionally, Whitewater Festivals are supported by those in the paddle sports industry, municipalities, counties, and other community interests. I cannot help but seeing this sponsorship as greenwashing on the part of Lucky Jack. I fail to see any other correlation. I also feel that acceptance of this sponsorship is the same as supporting the project itself. Though I feel this way, some do not. It is my hope that this thread will generate some dialogue that can then be used as a gauge of public opinion from Colorado's paddling community which can then be used to inform some other organizers of the interests of the paddling community. I look foward to your response, either way.

Kevin
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Old 12-17-2007   #2
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
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A Steamboat tag and you are representing Gunnison? I cannot believe that you are even asking for input! A mine at the top of our watershed and you do not see the impact............... You'll just go on an oblivious fool! Maybe "Lucky Jack" will give you a free toaster and you will forget that they only want to use their donation to the festival as a PR move? To be blunt, just say nay, nay, nay, nay, nay, nay, nay, nay, nay, nay, nay, nay, nay, nay, nay, nay, nay, nay, nay, nay! And the features at the park are still #UCKed but at least we will have an eddy for sanctuary.............
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Old 12-18-2007   #3
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I am about to scream bloody murder on this "Lucky Jack" nonsense.

Let me start off by saying first and foremost, I WANT A MINE ON RED LADY.

People in this community, and ultimately around the state, have got their panties into the biggest bunch in the world over this mine. And all of it is for nothing! HCCA and the various anti-mine groups will have you believe that this project is going to destroy what we hold dear in Crested Butte and "ruin our mountain paradise", when the truth of the matter is that it will do no such thing! The High Country Citizens Alliance spreads misinformation, slanderous allegations, and tries to favor public opinion by stating facts that are a little less than accurate.

"Increased traffic"- Fifteen to twenty trucks a day. I dont know about anyone else, but I notice at least fifteen to twenty trucks AN HOUR going to/from crested butte carrying dirt from construction sites, snow, contractor waste, garbage, etc. There's that many trucks going by no, what's the difference?

"Noise"- What noise??? Everything conducted in the mine will be done underground, and it isn't until the final step of loading onto the trucks that it comes above ground. And you wont hear that at all. Again, the trucks? Already there so its no impact! And blasting? Well, isnt the sound of AVALANCHE blasting music to everyone in the valley's ears?

"Impacts to schools and hospitals"- What are you worried about? the Gunnison RE-1J school district is already one of the top districts in the state. An influx of students would only help the school by netting it more money. The Gunnison Valley Hospital is a first rate institution and with the recent expansion, could accommodate any kind of influx of people. So they're saying there shouldn't be a major disaster here because our hospital isnt up to it essentially.

"Property values"- They wont go down. In fact, with miners and their families coming in, the values will go up, and not down! The only people
that will pack up and leave are texans, and they dont account for more than about a week or two of occupancy in the valley anyway. Mining is one of the most strictly controlled industries in the world, and Kobex and US Energy WILL make sure that stringent water quality, noise limitations, and aesthetic values are upheld 100%! They wouldn't be able to operate if not!

"
In a county where a clean environment and ranching are the source of our tourism-derived economy, such a proposal would endanger our very livelihood. Imagine the Gunnison River and Blue Mesa reservoir being compromised, possibly losing their attraction to anglers and recreationists. We canít afford to let that happen!"
^ This statement is pure bullshit! The Gunnison River NOR Blue Mesa will even be so much as TOUCHED by this operation, so where are you getting the idea that will ruin it?? GOD THESE PEOPLE ARE STUPID.


It's really remarkable how fired up people get about "not having this mine". Especially those in HCCA, as most of them are damn sure they have the latest lightweight skis and the latest lightweight mountain bikes and space age backpacks and fancy trekking poles, and yet, none of these wannabe hippies has any idea (or they just choose to overlook their own hypocrisy) that molybdenum was used to make those same products. The aren't going to "clear off Red Lady", he entire operation is going to be underground, and most importantly, OUT OF SIGHT of the town of Crested Butte. HCCA will have you believe that the miners that come in to town are going to destroy Crested Butte. Uhm, excuse me? I know miners. My parents were both miners for twenty+ years. Miners are hardworking guys who have families, and most importantly, SHOW UP ON POWDER DAYS. You think Molly fucking Murfee, stupid chief hippie
extraordinaire can say the same? Try finding her in her office when theres two feet of fresh. Funny how that works out! These people move to the mountains for ten years and suddenly think of themselves as "stewards" of our community and think that they know what we all want. Well, you dont. I am ALL FOR a mine. And when you get down to it, no matter what a bunch of hippies say, they WILL mine that mountain. If the cost of moly continues its rise, which it will, then there is no doubt about it. So from here you can read a bunch of slanderous propaganda that is filled with inaccuracies and misinformation from HCCA, or you can simply find the truth by asking Kobex Resources directly, and they will tell you the limited scope of their plan, and how they will effectively, and minimally evasively, continue with this operation.

People forget Crested Butte wouldnt be around at all if it wasn't for mining.

Now, as to the WW issue, what is your problem taking their money? Kobex could very easily come down here and mine and just say "fuck you" to everyone in the community, but they aren't. They're outreaching to the community, and sadly, the community is rejecting it. Money is money people! They are willing to donate money to the hospital, to the schools, to the local recreation community, trying as hard as they can to help people realize that they aren't a bad thing, and people are just so enamored in their misinformation that HCCA tells them to make a choice for themselves. Its not PR people, they are honestly trying to help us out. So what if they throw some money for the sponsorship of an event. Thats GREAT in my mind! And basically, you're telling me you'd rather NOT have a competition and NOT have a festival, just so you can avoid indirectly supporting a supposedly "evil empire" and feel good about it? No thanks. If it was my choice I'd have the company fund the whole thing. It would keep all those misinformed, self righteous hippies away from it, thats for sure! I have tried to tell every Kobex employee I meet that not everyone in this valley shares the view of HCCA. In fact, many many people feel that way, they just don't have the PR campaign that HCCA does. If you have ANY sense in you at all, you'll realize that there is a flip side to the coin, called "ECONOMIC PROSPERITY", and that the mine IS NOT going to be another Climax.
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Old 12-18-2007   #4
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just thought of one last thing I wanted to say..

A couple of weeks ago, it was announced that Climax would be re-opening operations for moly mining. Granted these are two different situations, but its all mining, what was the first thing said by Lake County Commissioners? "This is a great day for Lake County". No bitching about land values or aestheics or any of the bullshit theyre worried about here. Just, "a great day".

Enough is enough. Theyre going to build that mine, and if you dont like it, then maybe YOU should leave, because theres lots of people in this valley who WANT a mine.
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Old 12-18-2007   #5
 
The next zone, .
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MCMW

For life....

I agree with yeti... Unless he slaps me ..

I was here in Chaffee and Lake Co when Climax closed last time and would love to see her opened again..

Take the $ from the mine.. Much better than taking cash from Coke a cola or walmart!!!!
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Old 12-18-2007   #6
Mut
 
GWS, Colorado
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I'd take the money and use it to promote the event. If you take the money it does not mean you must support the mine. If the mine opens and it has significant negative impacts on the river or surrounding environment, then you can speak up through the public process.

Is well, if the mine gives you money for a whitewater festival and the festival gains support and becomes a big event like you want, you and other participants may have more clout if you find the need to protest mining operations.
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Old 12-18-2007   #7
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
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The mine companies are practiced in the art of deception, that is what I am against! Yeti you seemed to have had the wool pulled over your eyes for years, so I am not worried about you......... Do you really think they care about the festival? Yeti was right on one thing though, they are only in it for the money! I will just continue to work my menial job and boat and ski and be content. I pay about as much attention to the mine as I do politics, religion and fashion. I just wanted to scream bloody murder when I saw the stupid sponsorship thing!
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Old 12-18-2007   #8
 
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Ok if yeti gets to double post so do I..

Think about this - every single mtn town that has been yuppified over the past 30 years was a mining town at some time. Mining is the reason that skiing is here, that all these mtn towns are up here, and the top driving force behind the economic growth that Colorado has seen over the past 100 years.

So basically the reason your rich lawyer or doctor daddy even wanted to come and visit here was due to these miners.

If you break it down I think the mine is less of a factor than the upper yuppidie types having to deal with the mine workers. Why should we share our town with dirty miners?? Well because they are the reason that you are even here!
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Old 12-18-2007   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sandoz View Post
The mine companies are practiced in the art of deception, that is what I am against! Yeti you seemed to have had the wool pulled over your eyes for years, so I am not worried about you......... Do you really think they care about the festival? Yeti was right on one thing though, they are only in it for the money! I will just continue to work my menial job and boat and ski and be content. I pay about as much attention to the mine as I do politics, religion and fashion. I just wanted to scream bloody murder when I saw the stupid sponsorship thing!
Its no longer an issue of deception though, sandoz. The mining companies understand the negative impacts they make, and they strive to address those, as well as other issues surrounding the local areas they mine in because they last thing they need is more negative publicity. Mining is already one of the most controlled and regulated industries in the country, and mining companies these days are trying to be as friendly to the little guy as they can. That's not to say they aren't in it for the money; they are, but everyone everywhere is in it for the money. The bonus of them caring more is the outreach they now strive to extend to local communities, and that is exemplified perfectly in this situation. They know that a mine is unpopular and will be strictly controlled (if it's even built, but don't worry, it will), so as a tradeoff for living with that, they're trying to help us out in another way. They understand whitewater recreation is a very integral part of the outdoor community here, and what better way to show us they care then by helping support a struggling event? Seems like a bonus to me. They have also donated money to both the local school district and the hospital- two points that HCCA will have you believe will be "negatively impacted" by a mine- as well as having hired 95% of their current workforce at the Htwo0 plant and PR office right here from the valley. I know one guy personally who gave up a very great trade job and his own small business to go work for them because they care about their employees- again, locals- very much.

As for what RDNEK referenced about "sharing the town with dirty miners", that's exactly the mentality of your average HCCA citizen. Miners are decent folk who have families and are no different than you or I. They are hardworking Americans that want to raise their families in a great place. HCCA says if these miners come on, the "greatness" of CB will be ruined, and to a point, it will be. But it's not the miners fault, it's HCCA's, for breeding such an environment of distrust and scorn on a group of ordinary Americans that deserve none of it. They wont make a scene, and they wont cause a problem. it's everyone else overreacting in a ridiculous manner that will cause problems.

The "wool is not pulled over my eyes", bud. I just understand that the situation is nowhere near the nightmare and the atrocity that HCCA will have you believe.
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Old 12-18-2007   #10
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RDNK Raises a good question. How pure is any of the Money you will get? Is there any pure money in the good ole USA?

To answer your original question. I would pass on the money just to avoid the Shit Storm taking said money would cause. sj
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