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Old 06-04-2015   #31
 
Steamboat, Colorado
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 580
Thanks, Phillip. I do appreciate the clarity.

There are always two sides to everything. Sure do wish we could get Emma on here to offer up her side, but you're right, we probably did chase her off. Too much, too soon.
This doesn't justify the crap everyone gave her, but I do wonder why she felt it was an important detail that she's single.
I have a dog.
I like music.
I like to sit on my ass and drink beer sometimes.
Oh sorry... I guess that's not relevant.
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Old 06-04-2015   #32
 
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Kalispell, Montana
Paddling Since: 1997
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 1,436
Too bad people can't find the time to make intelligently sarcastic remarks without having to be sexist to get a laugh.

Quote:
Originally Posted by soggy_tortillas View Post
I can't speak for all of us, but I'd assume that the majority of the females on here at least have some sense of humor... I think we're all faced with the reality that this is a male dominated sport, which means jokes sometimes err on the dirty side. The same would probably happen in hockey, or lacrosse, or playing pool down at the local bar. There's this thing called human nature, and it's in all of us.
So there's my two cents... got change for a dollar?
As an adult hockey player, I think sexism is worse in boating than in hockey...but this is also from a guy's point-of-view.

Quote:
Originally Posted by soggy_tortillas View Post
If you're not looking to be hit on, then don't disclose that you're single. If you're looking for boating buddies that's all you've got to say-- Hey, I'm a 25 year old girl in Steamboat who needs some other people to paddle with. Willing to travel, anyone wanna meet up???
Like I said, I offered myself up as a boating buddy, here in the boat or to meet up somewhere like the lower blue or the colorado... no response. Maybe if I were a guy I would have got a response... just saying.
Thanks for hitting the nail on the head, ST!


Quote:
Originally Posted by deepsouthpaddler View Post
Many folks don't understand the difference between good natured shit talking (commonly between folks who know each other) and being a total anonymous internet dickhead. Big difference.
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Originally Posted by restrac2000 View Post
To be clear....I find the humor insulting as a man. Sitting around joking with friends who you know is fundamentally different than generically throwing out harassing comments like we are talking about in a internet forum of strangers. And this person was a "stranger" as a new member.

Nuance is important. All the more power to you for knowing your individual preferences and boundaries.
Bravo.
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Old 06-04-2015   #33
 
cedar city, Utah
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,904
Quote:
Originally Posted by soggy_tortillas View Post
Thanks, Phillip. I do appreciate the clarity.

There are always two sides to everything. Sure do wish we could get Emma on here to offer up her side, but you're right, we probably did chase her off. Too much, too soon.
This doesn't justify the crap everyone gave her, but I do wonder why she felt it was an important detail that she's single.
I have a dog.
I like music.
I like to sit on my ass and drink beer sometimes.
Oh sorry... I guess that's not relevant.
I can understand that concern. And I fear in this occasion that it could have been one of our more lowly users trolling us but I hope my charitable interpretation is valid and it was genuine. And I think your questions are fair enough and it would have been appropriate to question her (about her actual intent) and point out how they might be interpreted if others hadn't crossed the line they did. I do think it highlights the "boys clubhouse" mentality some of us are highlighting though. Some people adapt and even thrive in those environments, others don't. And to be honest I am not sure where the dice are going to land in regards to MB and these issues: is there enough of an audience and membership to justify the constructive criticism right now or do some of us eventually walk away or just lurk. Can't predict that outcome myself.


I should highlight I might have a weird style for some. I try my best, and fail at times, to separate the comments from the person. Even when I disagree with the affect of a comment, wether it be issues of requesting of photos or using the phrase "mangina" as a joke about transgender people, I sincerely try not to assume malicious intent. At some point I am less generous in my interpretation but it takes multiple comments like that for to get there. So when a brand new member makes comments like we are talking about I assume the best. I hope that clarifies some of my constructive criticism as I have come to realize I think that approach leads a lot of people to view my comments as negative or personal attacks.

If I hadn't seen the pervasiveness of what I understand to be sexism like we are talking about I might be able to approach the issue differently. Sadly, the vast majority of outdoor forums I have joined, including this one, have taught me that even if the intention is "playful" the outcome is the same....fewer women and to be honest few men that are willing to engage in dialog that isn't about chest thumping and sexual humor. Until I get to know folks and preferably in person I tend to believe its best to stay away from that type of humor.

Mileage may vary.

Phillip
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Old 06-04-2015   #34
 
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Bazzaro, World
Paddling Since: 2020
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,308
Just a warring to all those of you ppl who get all butt hurt over stupid stuff like this:

"Anything you say on an anonymous internet forum like this, Can and will be used against you!"

If you feel like your'e getting treated unfairly because you dress like a girl or are a girl on the internet, ITS YOUR OWN DAMN FAULT! for telling ppl. Just saying.

Posters need to take some responsibility for their stupid actions and expect someone is going to get all up in their butt.. Right? Its just human nature like it or not.

FYI, Lower Salmon is at an awesome level right now. Big ass wave trains all the way down with the big hit at the slide! wooo hooo This bitch is going to run it out tomorrow. In 1 day! Hammer creek at 4:30 am?
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Old 06-04-2015   #35
 
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Belgrade, Montana
Paddling Since: 1991
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 1,626
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy H. View Post
So I want to understand what y'all are saying here. Are you saying that because some women may enjoy jobs at Hooters, or as strippers, that it's OK to objectify all women, & post demeaning requests for pics when a woman comes to MB trying to find a group to go boating with?

-AH
Did you read the article? It was truly fascinating and if you read it I'm sure you were very surprised by many aspects of the story. I wasn't trying to mean anything global by posting it. Just possibly illustrate that some women choose to be objectified. Nothing more, I wasn't defending any one's actions, condoning conduct or promoting an argument. I was simply trying to add perspective.

Take it or leave it.
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Old 06-04-2015   #36
 
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Belgrade, Montana
Paddling Since: 1991
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 1,626
Quote:
Originally Posted by soggy_tortillas View Post
...To all of you who know me, or may someday meet me on the river, please don't change your sense of humor just because I'm female. I, for one, will be much more offended if you chose to hide your jokes, and try to pamper me and dance around shit. Plus, I probably have a much more loaded arsenal of shitty jokes than you do, so... yeah. Tell your mom I said hi, too.
Will do Soggy Tits!
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Old 06-04-2015   #37
 
Steamboat, Colorado
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 580
Quote:
Originally Posted by restrac2000 View Post
I can understand that concern. And I fear in this occasion that it could have been one of our more lowly users trolling us but I hope my charitable interpretation is valid and it was genuine. And I think your questions are fair enough and it would have been appropriate to question her (about her actual intent) and point out how they might be interpreted if others hadn't crossed the line they did. I do think it highlights the "boys clubhouse" mentality some of us are highlighting though. Some people adapt and even thrive in those environments, others don't. And to be honest I am not sure where the dice are going to land in regards to MB and these issues: is there enough of an audience and membership to justify the constructive criticism right now or do some of us eventually walk away or just lurk. Can't predict that outcome myself.


I should highlight I might have a weird style for some. I try my best, and fail at times, to separate the comments from the person. Even when I disagree with the affect of a comment, wether it be issues of requesting of photos or using the phrase "mangina" as a joke about transgender people, I sincerely try not to assume malicious intent. At some point I am less generous in my interpretation but it takes multiple comments like that for to get there. So when a brand new member makes comments like we are talking about I assume the best. I hope that clarifies some of my constructive criticism as I have come to realize I think that approach leads a lot of people to view my comments as negative or personal attacks.

If I hadn't seen the pervasiveness of what I understand to be sexism like we are talking about I might be able to approach the issue differently. Sadly, the vast majority of outdoor forums I have joined, including this one, have taught me that even if the intention is "playful" the outcome is the same....fewer women and to be honest few men that are willing to engage in dialog that isn't about chest thumping and sexual humor. Until I get to know folks and preferably in person I tend to believe its best to stay away from that type of humor.

Mileage may vary.

Phillip
I think your approach is probably one of the healthiest. I usually try to do the same as far as giving people the benefit of the doubt, but I will be the first to admit that I am sexist.
I have a really hard time getting along with women, and if I'm honest it is because of stuff like this. We seek out attention, then have a fit when it's received in the wrong form. We're nice to each others' faces, and then when we're with our boyfriends or other girlfriends we talk all kinds of shit. We're nice to each other just so that we can talk to each others' boyfriends.... I try REALLY fucking hard to give girls the benefit of the doubt... I reached out to Emma for a friend and got nothing in return. I know, sad story. But really... this is why I can count my real girl friends on one hand, and have extra fingers left over to count my swims... which I can still count on one hand too.
And again, it probably doesn't help that my sense of humor is what it is... but you know, I've spent the last ten years of my life working in pizza shops, grease monkey, road and bridge... thus, my jokes are fairly limited to sausage, pepperoni, meatballs, pie, boxes, sauces, anything measured in inches (I've got a sixteen inch sausage and only a ten inch box)(this pie is so deep)(sausage wallet: bulk italian sausage, ho-made meatballs and hot gooey cheese, all wrapped up in a tight fold of dough, sauce comes on the inside), lube, dip sticks and moving your fucking Vulva (Volvo) so that everyone else can get through the construction zone. I've even gone as far (mind you I was drunk at the bar) as to let a few stupid boys know that my dick is bigger than theirs-- for the sole purpose of having them leave me alone (and a good laugh).
I'm crude. I can be abrasive and am totally sexist at times... I know, I have issues... I have very few friends. But that's okay.
As the work day fades away, I find my brain wanders away from sexism and towards the ginormous amount of water that is currently flowing through this amazing little town. My beautiful Burn is calling to me... "sit in my cockpit, wrap your skirt around me, paddle me... deep strokes..."
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Old 06-04-2015   #38
 
seattle, Washington
Paddling Since: 90
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 355
You white Knights of the buzz are hilarious. You really think a modern women needs the care and protection of a endangered animal. I don't see anyone making any comments About the hate in my paddle rafting sucks thread.Its 7 pages of guys( some of which who have posted in this thread) insulting me. Nobody came to my defense. Seems sexist imo to try and treat her any different then any other fellow boater. Btw if you don't think her post was worded in the manner in which it was you're guilable or sexist.
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Old 06-04-2015   #39
 
Steamboat, Colorado
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 580
Hey bucketboater, after you offered up a spot on your oar rig for me and I denied you, and you said you'd have better luck riding a unicorn than finding a single female boater... then elkhaven said something about a blow up doll... I tried to post a picture of a male blow up doll to pose as your unicorn... but it didn't work out. I figured you would enjoy the humor.
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Old 06-04-2015   #40
 
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Belgrade, Montana
Paddling Since: 1991
Join Date: Sep 2013
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I'm an equal opportunity harasser.
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