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Old 06-04-2015   #21
 
Steamboat, Colorado
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I know, I know... it's getting redundant, but for the third time... the girl specifically let everyone know that she's single.
If you ain't lookin' for a date, then don't set the bait!

What does being single have to do with boating? Why did she feel it was relevant? Does my being in a relationship mean I'm a much less desirable female companion on the river? Probably.
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Old 06-04-2015   #22
 
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Denver, Colorado
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I think there's a big gulf between announcing you're single and inviting strangers to speculate about how hot your mom is. But then again, I'm generally unconvinced by the "she was asking for it" defense.
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Old 06-04-2015   #23
 
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Wheat Ridge, Colorado
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soggy_tortillas View Post
What are the women who are employed by Hooters, Twin Peaks, Shotgun Willy's or the St. James down in Houston being objectified to that they themselves haven't signed up for? Hello, I'd like a job at your establishment, I have big tits and a nice ass, those are my qualifications. Thanks for the job. They're not forced into it. I have certainly had my choice of jobs, and strayed away from being employed at said establishments. What is stopping other women from doing so?
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Originally Posted by elkhaven View Post
Here is a link to a really interesting article written by a traveling stripper. It was enlightening for me, really.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/susanelizabe...tow#.ngE5kLp4L
So I want to understand what y'all are saying here. Are you saying that because some women may enjoy jobs at Hooters, or as strippers, that it's OK to objectify all women, & post demeaning requests for pics when a woman comes to MB trying to find a group to go boating with?

-AH
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Old 06-04-2015   #24
 
cedar city, Utah
Join Date: Mar 2008
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The numbers bear out the claim of sexism on this forum. I still believe its a minority of users who create that environment but I think the affect is just as damaging.

Quote:
Apparently its necessary to clarify how inappropriate many of the responses here have been. Going forward this type of behavior towards members and specifically women will not be tolerated.
I support the above philosophy. Its difficult and at times ambiguous to implement but I think it helps the community at-large.

Quote:
For the record the "is she hot" comment wasn't funny, useful or necessary and for my part just lowered the posters value to me... I simply found it childish - and there will be more. I just chose to ignore it and move on.
I tend to agree in idealism but the reality I have seen across multiple "outdoor" forums is that it doesn't take long for it to eventually and consistently turn into a primarily male dominated platform. As a man I can ignore the comments and sadly doesn't affect me much. But woman or other gendered individuals who are constantly harassed by some users don't have the privilege of just ignoring when it directly affects them. And its not just for those women who are directly harassed but the cumulative effect of a handful of users and the reliable outcome that creates our demographics. How do you ignore it and expect it change when it is so pervasive across the internet? At what point do we challenge that trend to create more inclusive and diverse platforms? I don't believe we need to create some sort of utopian forum but I do think there are plenty of nuanced ways to address the issue. And I personally know there is a difference between trying to address and criticize the problem versus the nearly impossible task of eliminating it (like the obvious problem of banning users).

I know one of the users in the thread mentioned sees me as the "moral minority". I know I get called out for being overly critical by several members. I think is easy to predict that some people will exaggerate and mock my feminist ideas because that is simply easier to do than remain vulnerable to constructive criticism and its implications to our individual behavior and its affect to our community. I for one am just tired of having from walk away from the vast majority of forums that devolve into a handful of dude-bro types of threads simply because people didn't speak out.

Quote:
I'm going to just leave what the girl we are mainly talking about here said...
Hey there! New in avon area looking to explore Eagle/Ark and Colorado rivers. 27 fun loving single athletic girl who loves to paddle

If you're not looking to be hit on, then don't disclose that you're single. If you're looking for boating buddies that's all you've got to say-- Hey, I'm a 25 year old girl in Steamboat who needs some other people to paddle with. Willing to travel, anyone wanna meet up???
My take....learn to interact with the individual before defaulting to comments that rightfully fit into the sexual harassment category. Its pretty simple really, reserve that type of humor for people who enjoy it and have admitted as much, like it sounds like you have. If/when people invite interactions like that than its appropriate. But it took less than one page to go there. The interpretation that because she invited that type of comment simply because she included the word single is dangerous and explains to me why the OP started this thread. I mean is it really that difficult to default to assuming she was just implying she was physical in shape to run the local rivers ("fit") and that it would just be her ("single").

I know I for one don't post any photos to this forum because of the atmosphere being confronted by the OP. I just refuse to even open the door (as much as possible) to the types of comments that have led this forum to being largely dominated by men. I actually think its a handful of users who lead to the vast majority of threads being degraded to their personal sexuality or humor about that. I don't know if that is actually going to change but I for one applaud bringing the issue up like the OP did.

Best of luck out there.

Phillip
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Old 06-04-2015   #25
 
Steamboat, Colorado
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 580
Don't put words at my fingertips. I never said "she was asking for it."
I simply noted that she must have thought being a single female was an important enough part of who she is and what she is looking for, otherwise she wouldn't have posted it.
It's an irrelevant detail when all you're asking for is boating buddies.
I do sort of relate this to the girl who wears a low cut top and a short skirt when she goes out with her girlfriends, then proceeds to bitch all night because guys won't stop hitting on her.
Again, totally redundant, but I just wanna make sure everyone is paying attention...
I offered to meet up with this girl, just about anywhere. I very politely told her a little about myself, told her our skills were probably on the same level, and let her know that I'm just another gal who's looking for buddies too. Not a fucking word back. There's also another note on her profile from someone offering up some contact info... no visible response... so........ she's obviously not looking for other girls to boat with.
Again, one more time, just so every understands. SHE CHOSE TO LET US ALL KNOW THAT SHE IS SINGLE! WHY???? WHAT PURPOSE WOULD IT SERVE OTHER THAN TO BE HIT ON????????????????????

As for the "is her mom hot" comment. It was a joke. Anyone that's too sensitive for that... is just that. Too sensitive.

You know... certain yogis say that if you sweat everyday and laugh everyday then you are healthy.
Seems like most of us have the first part of that down, but maybe not the last part. Laugh and be joyous, then go boating. Life is good.
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Old 06-04-2015   #26
 
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Wheat Ridge, Colorado
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soggy_tortillas View Post
....I offered to meet up with this girl, just about anywhere. I very politely told her a little about myself, told her our skills were probably on the same level, and let her know that I'm just another gal who's looking for buddies too. Not a fucking word back.
Or it could be that her experience on the Buzz was so offensive that she doesn't want to have anything to do with folks here anymore. She was also looking to go paddle rafting, not kayaking.

The "show us pics" posts are bad and held our attention, but then look at the other posts that interspersed with those:

Quote:
This should be good Friday entertainment, here come the pervs.....in 3 2 1 go.
Quote:
If this is a troll, thank you; this will be good.
Emma, if you're not a troll, I am sorry for what mountainbuzz is about to do.
Quote:
Where is COsurfgod when you need em? I for one am shocked at how mature you guys are being with this one.
Quote:
Worst one? Oh no not even close. the worst ones haven't woken up from their sloth yet. It's coming.
It's as if she wandered into the Coliseum, the hyenas are circling, and the starved lions and tigers are about to be released. Posts like these basically tell her that she's fresh meat to be used for sport for a bunch or sexist pigs. If you don't see it, imagine a woman walking into a dark bar alone and being treated this way by guys in the shadows. "Hey, babe, why don't you take off that heavy coat and show us what you got?" or "Look what just walked in! Wait til Jim Bob gets here to play with this one!" The physical danger may not be there but the message still is, and no one should be subject to this. And it doesn't matter if she said she's single, she didn't deserve the creep-o-rama she was met with.

Why in Hell would any woman ever want to come back to the Buzz after this kind of reception or associate with folks that accept it? Taken as a whole, there's nothing funny or playful about this treatment. She wants to go boating badly enough that she's posting on the Buzz and get together with people she's never met to go get on the river. My read is that's a pretty vulnerable place for a woman to be in.

-AH
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Old 06-04-2015   #27
 
Steamboat, Colorado
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy H. View Post
So I want to understand what y'all are saying here. Are you saying that because some women may enjoy jobs at Hooters, or as strippers, that it's OK to objectify all women, & post demeaning requests for pics when a woman comes to MB trying to find a group to go boating with?

-AH
Andy,
I was more alluding to the fact that many women choose, and indeed enjoy being objectified.
I'm sorry, but as a female I stand by what I say.
I don't go out in low-cut tops and short skirts, or let everyone know I'm single, unless I'm looking to be hit on.
Letting people know you're single is leaving the door open to questions on whether your door is open or not. Again, I believe her statement about being single is completely irrelevant to finding boating buddies, unless you are looking for someone to mate with. Surely she knew she'd be getting some reaction to the description she left about herself. Otherwise, why not just say "Hey, I'm a boater chick, new to this world and looking for other boaters to get on the river with. I don't have a great roll, but still want to get out there! Anybody that wants to meet up anytime anywhere let me know!" And yeah, she may have been looking to paddle raft, but I picked up on her talking about her roll... don't know how often you roll a paddle raft.

Perhaps we need to start a "personals" section on the Buzz.
In the meantime, tell your sister I said hi.
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Old 06-04-2015   #28
 
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Aurora, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2009
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"Time to bring it down again.
Don't just call me pessimist.
Try and read between the lines.

I can't imagine why you wouldn't
Welcome any change, my friend.

I wanna see it all come down.
Bring it down
Suck it down.
Flush it down." (TOOL)

Sorry I had the lyrics quote wrong in my previous post. Wanted to correct it.
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Old 06-04-2015   #29
 
Steamboat, Colorado
Join Date: Jul 2014
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I think I've said more than enough about this issue... I will leave it alone after one last thing.
To all of you who know me, or may someday meet me on the river, please don't change your sense of humor just because I'm female. I, for one, will be much more offended if you chose to hide your jokes, and try to pamper me and dance around shit. Plus, I probably have a much more loaded arsenal of shitty jokes than you do, so... yeah. Tell your mom I said hi, too.
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Old 06-04-2015   #30
 
cedar city, Utah
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Soggy,

To be clear....I find the humor insulting as a man. Sitting around joking with friends who you know is fundamentally different than generically throwing out harassing comments like we are talking about in a internet forum of strangers. And this person was a "stranger" as a new member.

Nuance is important. All the more power to you for knowing your individual preferences and boundaries.

Phillip
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