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Old 10-17-2006   #11
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 206
The whole idea of buying from and supporting certain company's because they donate to certain causes is a strange idea to me. Many people choose to keep their donations private, do they deserve less business? Should I buy a $80 tshirt from Patagonia because they donate to 1%? or should I buy a tshirt at Target for $15 and donate the $65 I saved to 1% myself? It's kind of like all the people that buy from REI because they get a crappy dividend at the end of the year.. hmmm.. lets see, pay full list price for something now in exchange for 5% back in "store credit" at the end of the year.. or maybe I should just find another store that is cheaper or has it on sale for less and get my discount now!! Look at how many stores have gone out of business this year in Boulder, BOC is now closing their doors as well, many of which I am sure were brought down by people buying at REI so they could get 5% back later.

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Old 10-17-2006   #12
Steamboat, Colorado
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 458
Oops.. getting on this one kinda late. The 1% for planet is something I joined with my business, and has very little to do (if anything) with Mountainbuzz.

Basically I give 1% of my business' total revenue back to environmental causes. All told, the yearly donation equals roughly what I was bringing in in total revenue from Mountainbuzz (ads + product sales). So in that regard, Mountainbuzz was funding my 1% contributions.

You can read more about the program here. And if you can and haven't yet, go listen to Yvon Chuinard talk about business. Yvon has always been, and continues to be inspiration:

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Old 10-17-2006   #13
Charc in = charc out
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Seattle, Washington
Paddling Since: 1992
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 475
last post, i promise .. i only got dragged back in cuz i got a PM notification.

here's the deal cma, it's called conscious consumerism. big biz has done a great job of passing off the burden of guilt for the catastrophic condition of our global garden on us, the individuals. the biggest example of this is the whole notion of "recycling". it's a good idea & it makes you feel good to do it, but it only gives one, maybe two more life cycles to a resource that's on it's way to the landfill no matter what. but that whole notion takes the impetus off of 3M & GM & Exxon & puts it squarely on your back.

expand that to the fact that our government has been hijacked by corporate pawns. the current admin has no plans to do anything socially or environmentally progressive or even remotely, um, "good". they exist to create windfall profits for their chosen "teams" (oil industry & defense contractors), & that is happening, it's in the public record & on the news.

this is where the idea of conscious consumerism comes into play. since we have no voice at the polls (widespread fraud), we vote with our dollars. why pay more for a patagonia product? because if you actually look into how the products you buy are manufactured, & the values that guide the people that produce them, you will find that there are hidden social costs that big biz calls "externalities" (costs that get passed off to anyone but them). you aren't paying them directly, but it's coming out of your pocket anyway over the long term. a great way to learn more so that this isn't such a "strange idea" to you is to educate yourself. you dog on REI for putting small biz under, but it's also widely known that BOC has been on its way out for y-e-a-r-s due to a track record of shitty service & an already oversaturated whitewater retail scene in colorado. furthermore if you take a minute to actually research how REI operates, you'd learn that they are in fact a model citizen in corporate social resposibility. they are extremely employee focused, they are exploring innovative green technologies for their flagship store locations & they were just named #9 in Fortune Mag's best places to work, & #2 by Seattle Met for Seattle's best places to work. I'm fanatically for supporting small businesses, but when it comes to instituting progressive action in the biz community, I also know (cuz it's my job) that it has to happen on several fronts: 1. from inside the biz community (a la REI, Patagonia, Medium Footwear, Nau clothing, the organic movement.) & also from us consumers supporting the biz's that are DOING THE RIGHT THING. You have to tip your hat to those big companies trying to make mid-course corrections & risking it all to do it, like Patagonia, like Ford, like BP.

a great place to start educating yourself would be to read "let my people go surfing" it's an easy, super-quick read (i finished it in 2 days) & it was written by a guy who put up a bajillion first ascents in yosemite & the tetons, as well as did the first descent of the clarks fork & not to mention built a 100 million dollar company from scratch. i'll take his advice over yours any day.

and with that, i am peacin' out for good. flame me at my own website, ya jerkfaces
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Old 10-17-2006   #14
holley's Avatar
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 181
Aww, Todd, don't go! You know we'll miss you. OK, maybe we just need to come up to the NW to see what took you away from CO in the first place. If nothing else, you better post your Vaca to Hell adventures cause we wanna know how it goes (without having to go to another know, we've already got a lot going on here).

And just for the record, our 1% donation was going to American Whitewater. By donating to AW and First Descents, Andy is definitely in line with the way a lot of us on this site feel, even if it's not through the same channels.
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Old 10-17-2006   #15
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 206
Todd you didn't read... I was saying that I am supposed to get warm and fuzzy when a company says they are going to donate 1% to a cause.. even though if you research, talk to people and look at financial reports, many companies out there donate huge sums of money, more than 1%, and just choose not to blab it out loud.
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Old 10-17-2006   #16
pnw, Washington
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,404
ToddG, I believe that the subject was changed to handle the issue you had with people not seeing your post when it was moved. It was a mistake and I apologize that it happened.
"Yesterday I was clever and tried to change the world. Today I am wise and try to change myself." -Rumi
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Old 10-17-2006   #17
Spits Hot Fire
N. Cascades, Washington
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 978
Jerkfaces! Come on, dont go entirely. I appreciate your input for shit like that and topics like this thread. Plus your the trip report picture King. Plus your goin to hell.
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Old 10-17-2006   #18
pnw, Washington
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,404
Absolutely correct and since we cant go to hell with you...well at least this trip...keep us up-to-date
"Yesterday I was clever and tried to change the world. Today I am wise and try to change myself." -Rumi
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Old 10-17-2006   #19
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Somewhere on, Earth
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 261

Originally Posted by ToddG
I was stoked awhile back when Francois & Holley announced that Mbuzz had joined 1% FOR THE PLANET. (<-link)

Maybe I missed it, as I haven't been on all that much lately, but with the transfer of ownership, I never saw any mention of this being continued. Can you clarify?

I changed the title as it was labeled "hey admins" and it was clearly directed at me and Mountain Buzz's continued support of 1%. The reason I changed it was so that others visiting the site would more quickly be able to understand what the discussion was about. Thanks for brining the topic up, I think it was a point that should be discussed.

If you have serious objections on me changing the thread title to make more sense, please let me know why?

Our goal is to not censor or manipulate the community. As the next Colorado boating season starts, I hope we can have some standards in thread titles. This is not to feed my insane ego for highly moderated thread titles that gets me off each night (it does not) but instead to allow the software to relate discussions together. So if you are reading about westwater it will show you other recent posts about westwater too...

You all need to have some faith in the fact we are not here trying to bend you over. The members on the Buzz Crew are great paddlers with 40+ years on Colorado creeks and sincerely have the communties best interest in mind.
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Old 10-18-2006   #20
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 19
just wanted to toss my 2cents in on the conscientious consumerism topic. CMA, you didn't initially say that you should get warm and fuzzy about corps that donate money. You suggested spending your money at target and then donating your money, rather than spending more money for a more consciously produced product.

Well, this idea is great if you do it. Highly unlikely. Maybe once, but on every purchase you make? Don't kid yourself. Second, I'll play along, assuming that you do donate your (the consumer's) money, are you going to take the time to research and adequately distribute your donation. It shouldn't go to first descents. A portion should go to the migrant farm workers who got pesticide sprayed on them. And some to the farmer's whose non-organic cotton fields are not fallow. And some to cleaning up THE RIVERS where the pesticide run-off FLOWS into. Then you will need to think about the underpaid workers that target employs and the extra shipping costs that get your shirt to you from anywhere in the world, and that leads into global warming issues. I'm gonna stop here cuz you hopefully get my point. So under your model, consumers should not only recycle (todd's suggestion) but you need to basically distribute one penny to 65,000 causes cuz they are all related. Sounds like a great idea!?

Every purchase you make is a vote for more of that product and that style of making the product. So if you want more of the above mentioned problems, buy your tshirts at Target and walmart. If you would rather see some progress made, support consciencious consumerism and be part of (and vote for) the change.

One more thought. Patagonia and REI are unique in that they are not public companies. This is important because every public company is required by law to maximize profits. This goes to Todd's argument about externalizing costs. It is very difficult for these public companies to do whats right. Thats why supporting private companies that hold tight values and Coop's is very important.

Finally, donating to charities is all well and good, and should be encouraged. But the 1% idea goes to the fact that without quality environment we wouldn't even be having this conversation. The environment is essentially a resource that Mt. Buzz and the greater kayaking community depends on. Protect it, help it, support it, or say bye-bye to kayaking.

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