Montgomery Pass snowmobiles

[Waterwindpowderrock]

buy a map
figure out where sleds are allowed
go somewhere else
quit yer whinin'

problem solved

[PiToN]

Right on RDNEK. Good words.

Bottom line....If you don't like sleds, stay the F*!& out of the National Forest and get into a Wilderness Area. They reserved Wilderness Areas for crying little bitches that don't play well with others.

[cmike1]

So if you feel so strongly about your "right" to waste gasoline and spew oily blue clouds of filth into the air why don't you join the army and get over to Iraq and start killin A-rabs?

[grommet]

Judging by the comments of the pro-sled crowd on this topic, the only place that sleds aren't allowed (that is the correct spelling, not "aloud" for those on both sides who don't know better) is in wilderness areas. This argument is supported by the repeated statement that

They are called wilderness areas. Areas where no motorized travel is permitted

. Taking your logic to the next step, this means that motorized vehicles should be allowed anywhere except in wilderness areas. Does this mean that you believe that in the summer, ATVs and 4X4s should be granted access to any part of the national forest, irregardless of the lack of trails and roads, including places that are currently untouched by any motorized impacts? If so, do you then support the idea that roads and trails should be built into said areas so that these motorized users can access these areas? Since the Summits of Grey's and Torrey's peaks (2 of Colorado's 14er's) are not in a wilderness area, should we allow dirtbikes to rip their way to the top? Should we create 10' wide trail up there in the winter for snowmobiles? If I complained about hill-climbing motocrossers ripping up the tundra and spitting rocks, dirt, dead Pikas and dust in my face on the trail at 14,000 feet, would you tell me to go hike in the wilderness area if I don't like it?

Just because a piece of national forest land is not "wilderness" doesn't mean that sleds should be there. The very fact that you can go anywhere you chose on the snowpack, and often do despite those areas being wilderness, means that your activities can have serious negative impacts to the flora and fuana of the areas that you ride.

There are tons of places for snowmobilers to ride that already have heavy motorized impacts, are still fun and challenging, and don't lead to excessive user conflicts between skiers and sledders. Think about it!

And yes, to those that will feel obligated to berate and criticize my comments, I've spent plenty of time on a sled. I also spend more time skiing in the backcountry, and I've seen asshole slednecks and asshole skiers but mostly I've seen good people that just love being outside irregardless of their choice of sport.

[RDNEK]

Here is something for you “I don’t hurt the environment ever types”.

I get up in the A.M. have my coffee and drive 6 miles to the trailhead. Proceed to snowmoboard for 6 hrs and return home. I will burn about 1 gallon of gas to get there and back and 6 gallons (1 per hr) of BC fun. Lets remember that many of the new 06 machines burn zero oil and gas at about 15 to18 mpg (waaaay better emissions that every winnibego that travels these same passes every summer). So my total gas for the day is 7 gallons.

Now for the typical “ranger” - commute to the BC, hike and earn my turns, and put no pollution in the air types. Here is something to think about. Any reasonable trip to the bc from Denver is 60 to 80 miles of drivin – lets do a short trip to Berthod (sp) pass or the like round trip of about 120 miles. We all know that the fav vehicle of the typical “ranger” is a suv – you will burn about 12 gallons of gas to get there and back. Now if you take into account the starbucks you will drink and the McDonalds that you eat you are putting way more pollution than my day out on my evil gas burning machine.

The "ranger" has me by 5 gallons on even a “short” trip. Imagine if you had the audacity want to go ski wolfer – in that case you would be burning 20 – 30 more gallons of gas than my snowmachine!

Oh yea and if you stay in a 2nd home or ski condo. I could ride my snowmachine for over 50 years and not put the pollution in the environment as it took to build that 2nd home.

By the logic of the “I only earn my turns and contribute nothing to pollution types” I imagine that none of you live on the front range. Or commute more than 30 miles to a ski area. If you do stop now for gods sake! Because “gasp” you are worse on the environment than a damn redneck snowmobiler!!!!!!!!

Finally this is also worth far less than nothin<

It is funny to me to think how many “avid bc users” think that it is their right to drive up here and use this country!

How dare them!

Don’t they know they are spewing filth from their suv or Subaru when they do this!

How do they even live with themselves!

Why not just go kill civilians over in Iraq!

Come on people - time to look in the mirror.

[waterlily]

Originally Posted by bill

all i can say is f##k the sled heads. nothing is worse than having sled show up in the wilderness. a place where i should be able to ski in peace. or have some a##hole high mark the slope you are sking. if the sleds staied where they are aloud to be they wouldn't be such a problem.

wow! for some reason when i read this post, i have a really hard time taking any of it into account. first of all, ALLOWED, and STAYED. ouch, when trying to make an argument, simple spelling mistakes like this (obviously not typos) make you look like a complete idiot. second, when you condemn a whole group for the actions of a few, does this seem like any events in history to you? yes, there are assholes out there that take their sleds where they shouldn't. and yes, there are asshole bc skiers that will get in your face because for some reason they think that they are right. 'i get to have my fun, to hell with you.' but mostly out there you are running into people with the same interests and passions as you, no matter what "side" you are on. Everybody is out there to enjoy colorado's beautiful wilderness and get some turns in. try to keep this in mind and for god's sake, RELAX!

this argument really reminds me something i see all the time. i grew up in colorado on the western slope riding mountain bikes, camping, hiking, skiing, etc. pretty redneck family. i went to school in fort collins and was so surprised at the comments i would get from people when out in the bc. it was your typical boulderite (no offense to those of you who live there and are actually normal!) attitude. someone who has moved here from out of state, thinks they have the right to their favorite bc spot, and now that they are here, no one else is allowed. "it was okay for me to move here and encroach on the others that were here first, but now that i am here, no one else can come." give me a break. they are public lands for a reason, for all to enjoy. it is easy to sit back and bitch about all the wrong-doings of a group that you disagree with, but it would actually take time and effort to look in to all the good things (trail upkeep, revenue, jobs) that these groups also add. so i would have to say, before spouting off your extremist attitude, do a little research. you can even do it in the nice quiet solitude of your own home (one that probably sits on a spot where someone else used to go to be alone in the bc and watch the deer and rabbits play in the meadow, that is before the developers got to it!)

ps- skiing has two i's

[f@taldata]

I never used a snowmobile for turns! Until I could afford one. I steer clear of wilderness and am courteous to others on the trails. I still cross country and I know it sucks to call in my dog when a sled is approaching. Hence I usually XC where snowmobiles are prohibited.
As for the pollution of 2 strokes, I think the USFS will eventually mandate that all North American sleds become 4 strokes and noise and air pollution will fall as a result. The Yamaha's are quiet and long lasting 4 strokes, they just need more power.