Forums
Flows
Snow
Swap
Photos
Events Links Contact




Go Back   Mountain Buzz > Other Chatter > The Eddy


Click Here to Register

Quick Links
Buzz Forums
Home / Portal
Forum Listings
Safety Alerts!
Boater's Forum
Betty Buzz
Trip Planner
The Eddy

Photo Gallery
Creeking
Rodeo & Freestyle
Snow Riding
Member's Albums
Upload Photos
Classified Ads
Whitewater Kayaks
Kayak Accessories
Rafts/Accessories
Other Boats
Skiing & Boarding
Want Ads
Industry Jobs
Place an Ad


Sponsored Links

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-11-2008   #1
marko

Profile:  ., Colorado
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 437
Images: 2
There’s Nothing Mainstream About the Corporate Media

There’s Nothing Mainstream About the Corporate Media - CommonDreams.org
  Reply w/Quote
Old 02-12-2008   #2
heliodorus04
Self-Aggrandizing jackass
 
heliodorus04's Avatar

Profile:  The Ranch, Colorado
Paddling Since: 04
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 754
Status: Online
Read the article. There are some things I take exception to, most of those having to do with what "maintstream people" think... But it's not germaine to my point. There's enough accuracy in it.

I hear this point a lot, that corporate control of media is bad for democracy. That's true. In fact, after all the reading of Chomsky I did, and later discarded, the one thing that holds completely true to me is his assertion that the "news" isn't interested in informing people.

The MSM isn't. It's interested in making money. That's it's job. That's a corporation's job. My favorite Henry Ford quote is "We're in the business of making money, not cars" (somewhat paraphrased).

You know I'm a capitalist. I don't begrudge any corporate interest (or private interest) it's right to make a living, so long as it doesn't knowingly harm other interests unnecessarily.

That being said, this gets to a subordinate issue on democracy, which is that it's not a great form of government (for the record, I propose fascism so long as I get to be the dictator. I promise you everything will be GREAT! At least throughout my lifetime... the problem with autocracy is succession.. well, and assassination...)

Democracy relies on an informed electorate, and since corporate news's first interest (dare I say responsibility) is to make money, all we can guarantee is that they won't be primarily focused on informing the electorate. If it happens, the MSM will be pleased, but it's not their first goal. The proliferation of hyper-entertainment news shows this. What it also shows is what our electorate wants to be informed about. And guess what - it ain't our democracy.

So ultimately, the finger of blame for our terrible government falls onto the people, not the corporations, nor the MSM, nor the politicians. The lack of outrage by the voting public (less than half those eligible TO vote) is tacit approval for the way our government does "work".

I would assert that today, real information about the way our Republic operates is out there like never before in the history of our nation, or even the world. The internets makes knowledge so accessible, it makes first-person and varied & divergent points of view incredibly easy to access. It makes cross-referencing easier. You get my point. Marko and I are both informed bodies of the electorate. And for the most part, we've gotten very little of our guiding principles from things we observed in the MSM... We're smart enough to seek real knowledge everywhere.

Ultimately, the electorate doesn't want to be bothered with being informed. Even on basic, no cable television, most people can pick up PBS and watch McNeil-Lehrer newshour. Most people can watch 60 minutes. If people spent that 6 hours a week taping and watching those two programs, I assert our country and the world would work a whole lot better.

But people don't.

Why they don't is another subject entirely. And its explanation defines why I am a Federalist conservative, and not a Liberal.

To me, the nature of a human being is to be greedy, which is why capitalism works. And the vast majority of people are greedy about what they want to know about - which is in essence the use of their time. It appears, after about 50 years of television, most people want to be entertained, not informed.

If it were any other way, the rankings of television shows would be different, particularly news programs. I accept that more people are going to watch the latest news on Anna Nicole Smith than are going to watch a highlight reel of a Clinton/Obama debate. I acknowledge that more people are going to watch American Idol than are going to watch the Planet Earth series.

Does it disappoint me? Yes.

But it's human nature to be myopic in what we care about. And you can't make people care about anything.

Ultimately, that's why I feel it's better to restrict the right to vote to people who are going to be committed to being informed about it. giving the right to vote willy nilly to people has created more problems than it solved. Our government isn't so much corrupt to financial interests because of the financial interests, it's because people don't care as much about the course of our government as corporations do.

To me, it's the people who are to blame because they don't care enough to get and stay informed, not the government or the corporations. And the cool thing about democracy is that people get the government they deserve.
__________________
Remember the dollar value to human life. Mine is priceless. Yours is negotiable. - unknown
  Reply w/Quote
Old 02-12-2008   #3
lhowemt
 
lhowemt's Avatar

Profile:  Missoula, Montana
Paddling Since: 2006
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 516
At least you've convinced yourself that you are right, and me that you are not.
  Reply w/Quote
Old 02-12-2008   #4
heliodorus04
Self-Aggrandizing jackass
 
heliodorus04's Avatar

Profile:  The Ranch, Colorado
Paddling Since: 04
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 754
Status: Online
I may not be morally right, but I'm substantively right.

Capitalism and democracy are not systems of morality, they are systems for economics and government, respectively. Morality is another bugger altogether.

So I could understand the positions of others, I'd like anyone who's interested to address this one point from my first post:
Quote:
what our electorate wants to be informed about [...] ain't our democracy.
__________________
Remember the dollar value to human life. Mine is priceless. Yours is negotiable. - unknown

Last edited by heliodorus04; 02-12-2008 at 02:03 PM..
  Reply w/Quote
Old 02-12-2008   #5
gh

Profile:  Colo Spgs, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2000
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 2,254
Images: 2
Send a message via AIM to gh
Wait, there's news about Anne Nicole Smith? Where?
__________________
"I'm not here to make a record, ya stupid cracker" Governor Pappy O Daniel
  Reply w/Quote
Old 02-12-2008   #6
lhowemt
 
lhowemt's Avatar

Profile:  Missoula, Montana
Paddling Since: 2006
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 516
Difficult issues=difficult answers. Simple answers=simple minds.

Pontificate (m-w.com): to speak or express opinions in a pompous or dogmatic way.

It must be lonely at the top of your own religion
  Reply w/Quote
Old 02-12-2008   #7
elwood

Profile: 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by heliodorus04 View Post
Read the article. There are some things I take exception to, most of those having to do with what "maintstream people" think... But it's not germaine to my point. There's enough accuracy in it.
If you are going to use big words at least spell them correctly so I can find them in the dictionary.

germaine = germane = adj. directly related

For the record, I agree. Your post comes off as pedantic.
  Reply w/Quote
Old 02-12-2008   #8
heliodorus04
Self-Aggrandizing jackass
 
heliodorus04's Avatar

Profile:  The Ranch, Colorado
Paddling Since: 04
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 754
Status: Online
Pompous I can agree with. It's a ubiquitous quality of my writing (I spelled 'ubiquitous' correctly). Pedantic surprises me. As does the assertion that my view is "simple."

I was just asking a friend to tell me when to shut up, because I don't want to be out on Gore having to chase my own shit this coming year through having alienated everyone at the Buzz. I guess that point is right about now.

I'm not an unthoughtful person. I'm not an inconsiderate person. And I'm not a dumb person.
__________________
Remember the dollar value to human life. Mine is priceless. Yours is negotiable. - unknown
  Reply w/Quote
Old 02-12-2008   #9
TakemetotheRiver
 
TakemetotheRiver's Avatar

Profile:  Durango, Colorado
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 563
Images: 11
Helio always sounds pedantic and dogmatic, but that doesn't mean he isn't both logical and correct a lot of the time.

I still disagree that capitalism is the best economic system or that greed is human nature, but it is absolutely true that the electorate is not informed as much as they should be nor do they care to be.

Quote:
So I could understand the positions of others, I'd like anyone who's interested to address this one point from my first post:

Quote:
what our electorate wants to be informed about [...] ain't our democracy. .
And in response to why this is the case Helio? In a word- capitalism. Your precious economic system in this country has motivated us into an ideology of laziness with "me first" attitudes and general apathy toward anything that could be globally beneficial. It is true that accomplishment deserves reward but the American Dream has extended that to make not only accomplishment, but competition, worthy of monetary compensation. That competition has turned to greed and greed has all but eliminated our desire to care about anything that doesn't directly affect our ability to make more money today.

In addition, we have come to believe that because we work hard for all that money, we DESERVE to be entertained- and most people don't find the news entertaining unless it's frightening or gory because one more side effect of the capitalist drive is that we are all voyeurs- we love to see others fail at the Dream we are trying to achieve first.

And no, I don't have a study to back this up- personal experience and observation of people has proven this to be true.

OK- that was kind of a cynical rant. I'm done.
Quote:
Originally Posted by elwood View Post
If you are going to use big words at least spell them correctly so I can find them in the dictionary.

germaine = germane = adj. directly related

For the record, I agree. Your post comes off as pedantic.
  Reply w/Quote
Old 02-12-2008   #10
elwood

Profile: 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by heliodorus04 View Post

To me, the nature of a human being is to be greedy, which is why capitalism works.
Works for whom?

If it works so well why isn't the U.S. (one of the most capitalist countries in the world, although not a pure capitalist system) higher in standard of living rankings. Its the more socialist countries that have a higher standard of living.
  1. Iceland 0.968 ( 1)
  2. Norway 0.968 ( 1)
  3. Australia 0.962 ()
  4. Canada 0.961 ( 2)
  5. Ireland 0.959 ( 1)
  6. Sweden 0.956 ( 1)
  7. Switzerland 0.955 ( 2)
  8. Japan 0.954 ( 1)
  9. Netherlands 0.953 ( 1)
  10. France 0.952 ( 6)
  11. Finland 0.952 ()
  12. United States 0.951 ( 4)
Food for thought.
  Reply w/Quote
Post Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Topic Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Local Whitewater Instruction in the MainStream Media FRPA Boater's Forum 0 08-12-2007 11:26 PM
Media Coverage of Kayaking mvhyde Boater's Forum 3 05-17-2005 10:19 AM
www.WaterMaps.Info, Virtual Media & Video for Tallulah WaterMaps.Info Boater's Forum 0 12-29-2004 04:31 PM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.0.1

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:23 PM.

Other Social Knowledge forum communities:
Cooking Forum - Sailing Forum - Early Retirement - Airstream Trailer - Aquarium Forum - Royal Forum - Book Forum - Volkswagen Touareg Forum - Jeep Wrangler Forum - Whitewater Kayaking & Rafting Forum - Fiberglass RV Forum - RV Forum - Truck Conversion - U2 Music Forum
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2009, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.2.0



eXTReMe Tracker