Gov. should be working for the people by the people.
Rights are earned, not expected.
everyone has health care and education now. Not the best, but if you want better, you must try harder.
What country do you live in? It is certainly not the United states as here some 50 MILLION+ are uninsured. As more and more lose their jobs, the ranks of the uninsured keep growing as people lose their insurance that they used to have through their work. I deal with insurance companies all the time and they do everything they can to deny coverage or to drop people if they , GASP! have to actually cover someone. For profit insurance is the scourge that needs to be eliminated. It is funny how the Senators and Congressman have 'nationalized insurance' and the republicans are not screaming to give it up for private insurance. But what is good for them is not good for the rest of USA in their eyes. Fucking hypocrites, all of them!
What's your plan? Are we now paying for others ins. through taxes now? I see folks walk in to the ER and have nothing, cant even speak english and they are not turned away.
Yes, you are right, congress make the rules to favor themselves. But, with nationlzed health care would you spend 250k+ to become a medical doctor to have flat rates?
Do you want the best when you are sick? Or do you want a court appointed attorney?
The congress ins. is made for them, its special. Do you really think our care plan would be favorable? Do you think this new ins, you speak of, will also have it limits of who, what and when?
20% of current private insurance cost is in overhead. That is only 3% in public plans like medicare. So just off the bat one can lower cost by 17%. Now eliminate shareholders who expect dividends off the backs of working people and one can cut cost even more. Even more important is removing some bean counter from deciding what bills and procedures to pay where peoples health and lives are at stake. All the doctors I know would welcome a system that does not have them wasting so much time dealing with idiot, asshole insurance companies. The reimbursement level of most insurance plans is laughable. Having a universal system will make life easier for the doctors who could go back to practicing medicine.
I do not pretend to know the answers to what the insurance should look like exactly. But not even looking at a public plan is not the answer either. Burying one's head in the sand has never worked in anything!
Yarmony, that sounds like all current private plans! If my insurance company knew I kayak and raft high water, backcountry ski sketchy slopes, ice climb and rock climb + mountaineer especially in the winter, and brew my own beer, I am sure they would try to drop me!
As far as your situation in North Mexico/Texas, I can't help you there. You have to get control of your border and that is that. Without control nothing is possible. One plus of the current economy is people are going back home in Mexico as there are no jobs here anymore. Remittances down south have dropped 40-60%. So now is the time to get control back so we will be better prepared for when the economy rebounds. Something is very wrong when we allow billions of dollars earned here to be sent out of the country, helping the wrong economy.
20% of current private insurance cost is in overhead. That is only 3% in public plans like medicare. So just off the bat one can lower cost by 17%. Now eliminate shareholders who expect dividends off the backs of working people and one can cut cost even more. Even more important is removing some bean counter from deciding what bills and procedures to pay where peoples health and lives are at stake. All the doctors I know would welcome a system that does not have them wasting so much time dealing with idiot, asshole insurance companies. The reimbursement level of most insurance plans is laughable. Having a universal system will make life easier for the doctors who could go back to practicing medicine.
I do not pretend to know the answers to what the insurance should look like exactly. But not even looking at a public plan is not the answer either. Burying one's head in the sand has never worked in anything!
Yarmony, that sounds like all current private plans! If my insurance company knew I kayak and raft high water, backcountry ski sketchy slopes, ice climb and rock climb + mountaineer especially in the winter, and brew my own beer, I am sure they would try to drop me!
As far as your situation in North Mexico/Texas, I can't help you there. You have to get control of your border and that is that. Without control nothing is possible. One plus of the current economy is people are going back home in Mexico as there are no jobs here anymore. Remittances down south have dropped 40-60%. So now is the time to get control back so we will be better prepared for when the economy rebounds. Something is very wrong when we allow billions of dollars earned here to be sent out of the country, helping the wrong economy.
That in my opinion is the problem. The government won't restrict or deny anyone as far as I know. I do agree the overhead/admin cost are out of hand.
My wife and I had our boy two years ago and paid cash. My company insurance does not cover maternity, which I actually agree with. My sister had her second boy at the same time with insurance. Both boys were perfectly healthy and neither woman had complications. Sisters boy cost the insurance provider about $60K. We paid directly to the doctor, the labs and the hospital a grand total of approximately $10,225.
Since then her insurance company has paid well over $30K for simple doctors visits. We have a high deductable ($5K per year) so we rarely visit the doctors office. We generally ride out a cold or flu (unless it's serious) and REMEMBER what we did last time. She go's in for a visit every time the kid sneezes. She thinks were terrible parents, but I have to say, my kid is never sick. Her boy get's sick every time he visit the doctor. Being around all those other snot nosed kids get's him every time.
I wish I could just buy a plan that covers major medical issues above a certain dollar. I pay $550+ a month for my family coverage via my private company. We still have to pay up to $5K for our doctors visit and so forth. We have never come close. The really crazy thing is that I cannot deduct my direct expenses, I can only deduct my contributions to my health plan. YOu would think that I would have been able to deduct the whole $10,225 that year, not the case though. None of it was deductable, yet my sister was able to deduct her $125 a month, she contributed to her corporate luxury plan.
[quote=Neil Gustafson;151079What's your plan? Are we now paying for others ins. through taxes now? [/quote]
Yes. Plenty of other countries now do this and it's not crushing them financially. Imagine the explosion of small business growth (& thereby GDP) if health care was no longer the biggest financial impediment?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil Gustafson
I see folks walk in to the ER and have nothing, cant even speak english and they are not turned away.
So, we perform a basic English test on every accident victim that gets brought to the ER? Can you imagine yourself as a bouncer at the local hospital; pushing a Latino mother, whose kid is vomiting blood, out of the door and pointing south? Because if you can't see yourself doing that, my guess is the morality of your statement doesn't meet your own personal test.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil Gustafson
But, with nationlzed health care would you spend 250k+ to become a medical doctor to have flat rates?
Congress and the White House is already discussing these issues with health care professionals- like capping malpractice, etc. Bottom line, it's probably not going to be the perfect ideal for all players involved, but it will be affordable and humane. Or maybe we subsidize medical training, like most other countries do, so that qualified, motivated people that want to become doctors can without incurring 1/4 million $ in debt.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil Gustafson
The congress ins. is made for them, its special. Do you really think our care plan would be favorable? Do you think this new ins, you speak of, will also have it limits of who, what and when?
Your thought?
As long as no citizen is refused basic coverage, I'm OK with it.
That all being said, I agree with you about controlling our borders, and I mean thoroughly. I'm not down with amnesty; I think proximity & cheap labor does not give someone a pass to move to the front of the line and live in this country & ignore our laws (like car insurance). It has to be fixed, and LEGAL immigrants who live in this country must pay the taxes necessary to receive health care. If we're not heartless Nazis who allow sick people to die on the streets, then we're better off taxing them so they can get preventative care at 1/20th the cost of emergency care...cause we're paying for the ER care now through skyrocketing premiums.
Yarmony- I'm down with charging people more for unhealthy lifestyles. If I didn't have great insurance through work, I'd be willing to pay more for my 'dangerous' lifestyle of kayking / skiing / assassin for hire / cooking my own meth.
So what is the limit of your private pay catastrophic lifetime? $500K or a $1M? Because I know from personal experience that that threshold can be met within a year's time with one cancer diagnosis. My brother in-law burned though $50K in savings from out-of-pocket expenses and treatment deemed "not covered" in failed effort to save his life. He had insurance, he had money saved for emergencies, and it wasn't enough. They ended up on a social program & getting donations from friends and family to help them out, as he could not work through 2 years of chemo and operations. Like you, he was doing the right thing as a self-employed family man, and it turns out it wasn't enough. I really hope you never have to be in that position, my friend.
I commend you for making it to the point where you can afford a $550/month payment, and out-of-pocket medical expenses. But not everyone starts there (18% of US children live in poverty), nor can everyone get there (the old "the world needs ditch-diggers too" argument"). I would be surprised if there wasn't a point in which you had a gap in coverage, or at least sufficient coverage, where something catastrophic would have been far beyond the money in your bank account.
Anyway, good discussion, but I got a shitload of work to do.
__________________
"At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
So what is the limit of your private pay catastrophic lifetime? $500K or a $1M? Because I know from personal experience that that threshold can be met within a year's time with one cancer diagnosis. My brother in-law burned though $50K in savings from out-of-pocket expenses and treatment deemed "not covered" in failed effort to save his life. He had insurance, he had money saved for emergencies, and it wasn't enough. They ended up on a social program & getting donations from friends and family to help them out, as he could not work through 2 years of chemo and operations. Like you, he was doing the right thing as a self-employed family man, and it turns out it wasn't enough. I really hope you never have to be in that position, my friend.
I commend you for making it to the point where you can afford a $550/month payment, and out-of-pocket medical expenses. But not everyone starts there (18% of US children live in poverty), nor can everyone get there (the old "the world needs ditch-diggers too" argument"). I would be surprised if there wasn't a point in which you had a gap in coverage, or at least sufficient coverage, where something catastrophic would have been far beyond the money in your bank account.
Anyway, good discussion, but I got a shitload of work to do.
That's a really shitty story and I'm very sorry to hear of your family's experience. Without doubt this kind of a catastrophic problem needs to be addressed. We cannot allow a family to be destroyed by things like this. It's exactly the thing I worry about and why we pay the premium. I checked my policy and through Blue Cross & Blue Shield we have $10 million dollar catastrophic lifetime limit, they cover everything above $5K annually for the whole family. $10 dollar co-pay on scripts. Looking at it from that standpoint we are getting off cheap.
I'm just really uncomfortable with government be involved. There must be a better way.
Yes I've had many lapses in coverage getting to where I'm at now. But from that experience I believe the problem with the system is a total lack of competition and everything being over regulated. For example in my 20's I broke a bone somewhere in my body it seemed every other year. I never once had insurance. I always wished that there was a place I could go outside of the hospital and see in advance the price to x-ray, re-set and cast. Honestly, I hated being tied to the hospital which of course just sends you a massive one size fits all bill. I've seen charges in my statements of $15 for Kleenex that I never used. $10K for a broken leg with no pins or nothing, give me break!
I broke a shoulder once without insurance. Didn't have a ton of money so a dentist friend took an x-ray to see what it looked like. He said his cost was like $15 for the film. He re-set my clavical himself. Went to a medical supply store bought a sling and had my nursing school GF tape it up. We bought vicadin and weed on the on the street for about two months and it heeled fine. Cost me like $800, most of it was bud(which back then I would have purchased anyway).
It would have been nice, to go to a low cost clinic with certified technitions, not doctors. Honestly, it's been 15 years now since I broke the shoulder and not once has it ever hurt. My dentist and my GF at the time were more than capable of solving the problem. Same thing with colds, simple flu and other relatively simple problems, like crabs and shit. As a healthy family I want to pay like $150 a month for catastophic from $10K up to say $10 million lifetime and take care of the little shit by myself. The problem I see is that the current system doesn't allow enough competition to make the little shit affordable. In many areas the big health care companies are the only ones providing care.
Since BO likes to quote himself, I figure its alright if I do the same... as I've said before... I'm perfectly fine with universal health care under these conditions. To receive care under the universal public plan you must meet these conditions. You can't smoke tobacco or bud, do any other illicit or un-prescribed drugs, have unprotected sex, absolutely no butt sex., gerbils are out, no alcohol(maybe a glass of red wine a day), no extreme sports of any kind(absolutely no mountain/river sports of any kind), must stay on a restricted regimented diet approved by a diet czar. If tests show that you have failed to meet these requirements you are kicked off the plan after your third failure. All others willing to work hard and advance themselves and contribute to their own health care get to live their lives freely.
At least Yarmony didnt mention de-nut folks that should not reproduce.
You have a point.
Understand the border thing, it falls on deaf ears, why I do not know!. It seems that there is some benifit, letting undocumented folks run a muck. AZ, CA, NM and TX have the problem, and if you look close, say,, in Rifle, Meeker, CO. you will see change. Oklahoma, is the only state that has some form of removal in place, and what it amounts to is NO FREE SHIT. So they left!
Hybrid Mode
