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Old 11-15-2012   #11
jbolson's Avatar
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 139
Originally Posted by blutzski View Post
With the exception of unexpected medical expenses, it's not like this debt just showed up overnight.
Yes, medical expenses are a major cause of financial distress. And yes, overextending credit (poor money management) is also a major cause of distress.

Why does it threaten you? Is compassion evil? If someones debts are forgiven, you are hurt somehow?

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Old 11-15-2012   #12
Denver, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1999
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 855

I'm glad the message was well-received. And thanks for the kind words. I've become aware that sometimes I have a tendency to use a condescending tone, and I really want to avoid that in the future. It ruins the message, and makes me look like an asshole. And I'm actually a nice person.

I can't really disagree with you about some of the language that they choose to use. You wouldn't believe how much of an issue this is internally with activist groups - at least here in Denver from what I've experienced. One of the reasons I stepped back from helping Occupy Denver directly was because of this issue. I take to heart one of the warnings that Orwell wrote about in regards to the abuse of the English language and the constant encroachments of propaganda and euphemism used to distort the truth. Activists organizations, and all of us for that matter, are not immune to this phenomenon.

Take care!

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Old 11-16-2012   #13
Golden, Colorado
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,012
Anyone that takes offense to condescending tones and snide remarks should know better than to engage in an Internet forum debate. As far as I'm concerned, It's all part of the fun as long as one's meaningful contributions outweigh their gotcha remarks. I know that what goes on in the Eddy has no relation to how the majority of people here would interact on the river.

Still reading through the DROM Manual. But in the mean time I wanted to clarify one thing. The reason that I often place more blame on government than on corporations is that the government is elected to represent our interests. Like it or not, the roll of corporations is to maximize returns for share holders. You can demand that corporations be more responsible and "fair", but they will only respond if doing so improves their bottom line. Whereas you can and should demand that the government do what they were elected to do and you would be completely in the right. Strike debt may not like the "predatory" practices of financial institutions, but unless those practices are illegal, all that can be done about it is educate consumers. Whereas the government had equal responsibility in the financial collapse by manipulating interest rates to drive a consumerist economy and by reducing lending standards to increase home ownership for people that historically had to rent, thus creating the bubble that eventually burst. Then, this government that is suppose to be representing the people's interest bails out the financial institutions that should have been put through managed bankruptcy. Again, many people like Strike Debt, blame the banks for the bailouts. I blame the government. The bank's role is to maximize profit for share holders. They did their job... exceedingly well to the majority of the population's dismay. The governments role is to protect the people's interest. They failed.... miserably. It is clear that the government does not represent our interests any more, but corporate interests. Again, the corporations have succeeded at their role and the government has failed. While many see this as a failure of capitalism, I see it as a failure of the government and a failure of the people in holding the government accountable, or as Benjamin Franklin said, keeping the Republic. Anyone who voted Romney or Obama this election failed to hold the government accountable.
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Old 11-16-2012   #14
hojo's Avatar
Lakewood, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1989
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,234
I see it as a form of charity. I mean, the rich, who have a selfish interest in being taxed less, make the argument that they give generously to charity and thus, charity should be the mechanism for helping anyone in distress. This is a form of charity and just because it's funded, voluntarily by the proletariat, doesn't make it any less than funding the arts or what ever.

Granted, someone with spending problems have created debt problems for themselves. Someone who was laid off because of a global financial crash aren't necessarily making poor decisions. People who suffered because they took risks that are hailed as the cornerstone of small business entrepreneurship aren't the problem with the debt industry. If they were too risky then credit should have never been extended but it was. And, when the crash came, everyone suffered. Only, those at the top had a different form of debt forgiveness than those of us at the bottom.

There's a conservative catch-22 here where this form of charity is resisted because it doesn't benefit one group (lower taxes for the rich) while also strengthening another group (the middle class). The fear that it'll lead to irresponsible spending has no rational basis. If we spend poorly without a bailout, we spend poorly with one. It's an interesting charity in that it targets what is really financial hardship as a result of an industry of debt, not strictly a society of bad people.

Crap... forgot to offend someone. Marco, you're a douche. Blutzski, your the bag to marco's douche. Whew... dodged the bullet on that one.
On the river, I can abandon who I am and what I've done. However brief it lasts, while on the river I am nothing important and everything insignificant. I am flotsam, and happy to be so.
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Old 11-17-2012   #15
Grand Junction, Colorado
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 434
Wow! So much ass kissing here! I just want to vomit! Put that in your thought-provoking pipe and smoke it! Okay, I'm gonna go back to beating my head against a wall.... have a nice day.

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