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Old 10-04-2015   #31
God Amongst Men
yetigonecrazy's Avatar
Phuoc My, Da Nang, THE 'NAM
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I just wish there was some consistency to the moderating.

There are some mods on here who are great folks, have a sense of humor, understand that boating communities (which, despite what trends have attempted to overcome lately, boating is an EXTREMELY male-dominated sport) are by nature a bit childish, silly, and immature. Some of the mods tolerate some fun humor when it is clearly in context, or just made in good natured fun. These mods also step up and do what they need to when it's clear it's time.

But there are other mods on here who don't seem to have any sense of humor, and want this website to be like a 7th grade raft trip: everybody be nice, hold hands, keep it to class II (III if you must), and for god's sake, everybody go to bed at 9 pm. These are the mods that will deleted an entire thread if it contains even one post that maybe, MIGHT possibly offend someone.

Likewise, there seems to be a bit of a bias when it comes to who gets blocked, censored, or deleted. Some users can barely make a single post that is mildly offensive without it getting deleted, or getting a stern blast from the mods, when other users can continuously post offensive things and seem to be able to just flame away on whoever and whatever with no care in the world. It seems like if you are in certain circles (ie, if you boat with mods in real life) that you get a carte blanche as far as your behaviour.

Look, I get it. Trying to police an internet community is hard. Especially with the childish senses of humor that many of our beloved and much-adored users have. You guys do a good job and I'm sure behind the scenes you guys are doing a lot of work that we never see, such as website maintenance and the never ending battle with spam bots. And we are all forever grateful for that. I understand the reason for the mods. It's just a bummer that they all seem to be all over the place. Wish there was a consistency on their attitudes and post/behavior acceptance.

Anyway, do what you gotta do. I get it, the world is a scary place. Better bubble wrap everything and put flashing warning hazard lights out.

"Don't f$&@ing eddy out, just run it! Whaddya doin??" -LMyers
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Old 10-04-2015   #32
Andy R's Avatar
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I've had some time to think about this and a lot of things could have been done better by a lot of people (me included). First off, the account that was banned was not banned for being a sock puppet but because many of the posts made under that account were unacceptable and did not adhere to our Community Rules. It was then brought to our attention through this thread that Tony suggested via a Facebook post that his primary account was banned and a lynch mob mentality about our moderation ensued. Tony failed to provide context to the banned message, that it was not his account but instead his sock puppet account which he was posting as another person. So people thought we banned Tony, they did not know it was actually his sock puppet account.

I edit the the thread title because it was not accurate, Tony's account was not banned. When people see inaccurate thread titles it feeds the trolling. I edited the thread title so people would see it was not Tony's account that was banned but instead it was a sock puppet account. In hind sight, it would have been more accurate for me to have edited the thread to Porker Has been Banned (I plan to change the thread title to that after I submit this post).

When it comes to the content of the post that caused the Porker account to be banned it was loosely/poorly quoted from a satirical video. It was not an exact quote and when taken out of context (ie. excerpts of text) was not proper for the Buzz. The primary issue here is that we are talking about sarcastic humor which often does not translate well in text on discussion forums. One persons might know what the other person is referencing but other readers might not.

Duplicate accounts are not allowed and we are going to keep a better eye out for them. If posts are reported to us and we investigate and determine it's been made from a sock puppet account, we are going to ban the account and potentially ban the primary account. PLEASE don't setup fake accounts to talk shit, it's not cool. Talk smack under your own name and do so within our Community Rules.

This situation was complex because of the subtle nuances of what happened. It's typical of issues we have to deal with, very few are black and white. That being said, we do have Community Rules that everyone is asked to follow so please help out and make at least a small effort to abide by the community rules.

Our moderators are volunteers and peers from within the community. They have full access to what's going on and try their best to handle issues that are way out of bounds and need intervention. We don't always handle things perfectly but we try our hardest and we are willing to learn and grow from our mistakes. Please consider how your comments can be a beat down on our team when we are only trying to keep some sense of balance here. It's not an easy job and we make our best effort. Thanks for understanding and helping us keep this a friendly place.

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Old 10-05-2015   #33
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This place is bullshit and it has been ever since you took over Andy. My understanding is that you're a professional blog owner with absolutely no connection to the community except to leach some cash out of it. Correct me if I'm wrong.

It was started by Frenchy who is a great kayaker that made this community what it is and it's been slowly draining ever since he decided to get out.

The new mods have consistently and regularly chased off any interesting and humorous content. The banning and alteration of forum content is rampant, which never existed until Andy took over. The community used to police our own. Did you actually receive complaints or just take it upon yourself to delete the posts and ban users?

For the record, I posted this thread specifically in the Kayakers forum because that's the audience I wished to reach. The title was exactly as I wanted it. I do not appreciate you altering my speech and then allowing it to still be credited to my name.

I get it. You paid for this forum and you can alter anything you like about it. Many of us have in kind stopped coming here and absolutely refuse to click on your junk advertising. It's great that you attempt to create a completely inclusive forum by making it as boring as possible, but many people came here for the rough around the edges aspect.

You're in the wrong industry. You should be buying up HIV drugs - it's way more profitable.

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Old 10-05-2015   #34
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Joe, it's been almost 10 years since I bought this place from Frenchy. It does sound like there was a special spark from when Frenchy owned the site but I don't know what else to say. The posting volume on the site remains consistent, year in and year out. The number of folks participating has increased so there might be some drain but there are also new folks joining all the time. A small group of people have been carping ever since Frenchy sold the site and I just don't what to say, it's been nearly 10 years so either get over it and stay posting or don't. It is what it is, not much we can do about it now.

In the past 10 years I've tried to be hands off. It's my hope that we can empower members of the community to lead the place (moderators). We have an amazing group of guys who's hearts are in the right place and understand that we want to find a balance between smack talking and going over the line. With this past issue, I wasn't even part of the decision making process to ban the Porker account, that was decide by our team which includes some amazing paddlers.

I understand you posted in the Kayaking forum but this is not about kayaking, it's about a sock puppet account that got banned. You have your perceived ideas on how this place should be run and we apparently have a different perspective. I understand and have laid out many times that we have some standards that we are going to adhere to.

As for the comments about me being a professional blog owners, that's not exactly correct. I started a forum on a hobby when I was living in Gilpin County and it got popular. Shortly after I ended up acquiring a couple of other forums including Mountain Buzz (one of the first sites I ever bought). I ended up moving to Argentina so I could live on the cheap and take a crack at fostering forums as a full time career. Over the years I've adopted forums that were going to be shut down and acquired others that were already vibrant. We work with the teams to educate and empower them on how to manage the communities, use the software, chat about issues as a team, etc.

I know each site/forum has it's own vibe and we manage them accordingly. The team here knows that smack talk is part of what makes this place unique and no one on the team wants to cleanse that. Sometimes, just maybe, people go over the line and that's when they step in.

So, yes, we have some rules and we do require members to adhere to them. We don't force anyone to post here and to be honest, I think the team does a pretty darn good job.
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Old 10-05-2015   #35
cedar city, Utah
Join Date: Mar 2008
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There is a line between criticism and insulting that was crossed with your last statement. Moderation and site maintenance is largely a collaborative effort of many people with diverse ideas and philosophies. But the overarching reality is we all care about this site, what it offers the community and the people that use it. Insulting AndyR in the fashion you have leads me to believe you don't share that same value and resolve; I hope your future posts prove me wrong.

His comment about moderation in this particular case was sincere and accurate. You targeted him in a misguided fashion.

I understand we all don't agree all the time and some of the more memorable experiences on the website comes from differing opinions. We all have experienced the pains of a changing user base and the difficulties that can cause. I have only been a member of this site for seven years, which is a lot less than many, but the change has been obvious and ongoing in that span. It always will be as an open forum. The loose boundaries of this site, that are infrequently used to moderate content or users, have been laid out since I have been here, with minimal change. Most of the classic skirmishes on this site don't come from "above" but from within; individuals calling out behavior or standing up for it. That is still largely the case.

Individuals will have to decide if the parameters here meet their needs or not. Several people in this thread have expressed concerns and most are themes the site weighs seriously, from consistency to diverse and often conflicting content. The issues are rarely, if ever, black and white, despite many of us wishing they were. Contrary to some people's interpretation, the small Buzz team does not have the goal of limiting users but that does not interfere with our willingness to step in from time to time in accordance with community guidelines. But its about the specific content in those cases, not the person.

And to clarify another time: no user was banned in this particular instance, just a sock puppet account. TonyM is free to contribute again whenever he pleases. We hope he does as he seems to be a talented kayaker that inspires a lot of people to excel and push themselves. Two of us have reached out beyond differences to express the same invitation to you, within community guidelines.

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Old 10-05-2015   #36
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Having been a moderator (albeit part-time) for the better part of 5+ years, I can also attest to the fact that Andy R very rarely steps in to make an executive decision about board policy and/or moderation, unless we (the moderators) specifically ask him for clarity. He's about as hands-off a site owner as you can find.

I joined the Buzz a long, long time ago, prior to the transition from Frenchy to Andy. Sure, it's changed a bit, but not because of moderation or ownership or the nebulous Buzz overlords. It's a far larger community than it was 15 years ago, with a generation of internet users that probably doesn't resemble the close-knit collection of Colorado-centric boaters that largely consisted of Frenchy's friends and kayakers that he met along the way. Online communities have evolved, and not always in positive ways.

All Internet forums have their own identity and level of consistent boundaries, and I'd wager that Mountainbuzz is more lax than most. Sports team forums regularly outright ban opposing teams' fans from even joining their sites. Some forums moderate new posters incessantly. That really doesn't happen here, and very little moderation happens without a discussion between multiple volunteer Buzz moderators.

Show me a site that allows free-range attacks ranging for gay bashing to direct physical threats, and tell me how that ends up having any kind of community benefit to its intended audience. You end up having some dark, shitty soulless web crevice where someone can threaten to go on a shooting spree and have an anonymous posse egging him on. Sure, an extreme example, but all it takes is a couple of dominant assholes to start that downward spiral.

Screw that. For every person that knows Tony and his sense of humor (I do), there's probably more than a handful of new visitors to the site that might take it the wrong way, and view this place as a hostile boy's club where they're not in on the joke, and might feel attacked. That's why socks aren't, and shouldn't be, allowed. If you want the Buzz to have any resemblance to the close community Brian was able to nurture, then a little (and I mean a little) supervision is needed as the Buzz continues to grow its user base. If it's not your cup of tea, start a reddit board or a Facebook group and see how far you get without *gasp* moderation.

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Old 10-06-2015   #37
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For gods sakes, Deepsouth was not hating on women. "Balls" is interchangeable with guts. If at all possible, try not to take everything as an attack on women.
zach baird
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Old 10-06-2015   #38
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Originally Posted by zbaird View Post

For gods sakes, Deepsouth was not hating on women. "Balls" is interchangeable with guts. If at all possible, try not to take everything as an attack on women.
Whatever. Someday more people will understand that male references, by not including women, do exclude us. I know that most guys don't get this. Heck, many women don't. It seems so innocuous because it is the norm, but it is one that is changing. So just take my use of "hate" as interchangeable with "exclude".
I am a river, babe - I've got plenty of time, I don't know where I'm going, I'm just following the lines..... - "We are water" by Shaye
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Old 10-07-2015   #39
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Problem is, if he would have said balls and boobs to include women there would have been a different outcry. Sorry, but balls has been interchangeable with guts for a long time and ive heard many strong independent women use the phrase "grow some balls" or "Have some balls" with their male and female friends many many times. However, interchanging hate and exclude, not sure that works, but its a nice back pedal and i'll keep it in mind.
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Old 10-07-2015   #40
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I propose that community rules officially be amended that in place of the term "balls" we should use "brains"

I also feel that accurate imagery of such term should be included in the community glossary, of which, I will gladly supply...... And I'm sure a few of you have this image etched into your memory already.

I also propose the title of the this thread be changed to

Who's got Brains?
I'm gonna Brain you
Let the social media braining begin
Brains, not just at the put in anymore

"It's ALL good"

Go Dawgs!!!
Happiness is a way of travel not a destination
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