Paul Ryan discussion

[mr. compassionate]

I was throwing that number out based on 50% of the population, obviously some of the population are youths who dont pay taxes but 50% of working americans don't. I believe "working" is around 100 million. So my figure of 150 million was off I should say over 250 million don't pay taxes.



4% pay over 80% of all taxes. Flaco, you're the ignorant one for spouting pro obama bs which is bankrupting this country. What is your solution...oh yeah tax the rich which under Obama's plan brings in 200 billion more. That's nothing when it comes to the yearly deficiti you douche!

[mr. compassionate]

Originally Posted by Wavester

Bingo and that's the problem with the ryan budget is that it basically leaves defense (20% of the budget) untouched and only addressed SS and medicare. It also gives more unfunded tax cuts to the wealthy. How about all the above cut SS, Medicare and Defense AND give a modest tax increase to the wealthy. That way everyone feels the pain not just the poor and middle class.

I agree, but do you remember the last time a president(ronnie) agreed to tax increases on the wealthy for promised cuts in the budget. The Democratic Congress agreed to this then renegged on the cuts. Don't you think you'd be leery to agree to this deal again when the dems broke their promise last time around.

[mr. compassionate]

Originally Posted by hojo

Yup. 150 million not paying taxes. Bear in mind, 80 million citizens today are under 18 and pay little or no taxes and it's normal. Add on another 20 million over 70 paying little or no taxes. So, there's your 50 million leaching off the system, never mind how many of those 50 million, right now, are making little or no income due to unemployment. The thing with numbers is that unless you qualify them they really don't have any meaning. I don't think anyone suggests that the welfare state isn't ideal nor would I dare to say that people don't abuse welfare, but social security isn't the problem. The problem is that people want to blame social security or get rid of it based on principles, not because it's insolvent. Social security isn't broken because of itself, it's broken because we reprioritized it in the national debate. Social security suffers because of many factors including baby boomers, massive spending in other areas, and a general lack of tax revenue because of the massive unemployment leading to massive revenue shortage.

Social Security History FAQs Internet Myths II

It's broken because the average life span has increased so much-what don't you get about this statement!

[Jensjustduckie]

So what you're saying is we need to increase war spending and decrease health care which will bring our population age back down to a reasonable level? I think this may work.

[Wavester]

"4% pay over 80% of the taxes" Can you provide any credible evidence for that? I'll bet you got those figues either from fox news or right out of your ass.

At least Flaco could put together a credible argument.

Originally Posted by mr. compassionate

I was throwing that number out based on 50% of the population, obviously some of the population are youths who dont pay taxes but 50% of working americans don't. I believe "working" is around 100 million. So my figure of 150 million was off I should say over 250 million don't pay taxes.



4% pay over 80% of all taxes. Flaco, you're the ignorant one for spouting pro obama bs which is bankrupting this country. What is your solution...oh yeah tax the rich which under Obama's plan brings in 200 billion more. That's nothing when it comes to the yearly deficiti you douche!

[mr. compassionate]

Originally Posted by Jensjustduckie

So what you're saying is we need to increase war spending and decrease health care which will bring our population age back down to a reasonable level? I think this may work.

Jen, I agree that we should cut defense spending along with everything else. I didn't say anything about increasing defense spending. I believe we should pull out of Europe, Japan, South Korea, Afghanistan, Iraq...we should keep a strong presence in the gulfs of Oman, Aden, Persian and Straight of Hormuz.

[mr. compassionate]

Originally Posted by Wavester

"4% pay over 80% of the taxes" Can you provide any credible evidence for that? I'll bet you got those figues either from fox news or right out of your ass.

At least Flaco could put together a credible argument.

Yes, I must have been listening to Faux News: corrections from CBO-the take away point you fail to grasp is you could tax the wealthy at 100% and it wouldn't fix the spending problem! SPENDING is the problem not the fairness of who pays what!

The Top 10 Percent

• In 2008, 10 percent of the taxpayers paid 69.94 percent of the federal taxes, and paid an average of 18.71 percent of their income in taxes. To qualify for this group, you would have had to have earned at least $113,799 for the year.
  
  

The Top 5 Percent

• Five percent of the taxpayers paid 58 percent of the tax bill in 2008, with an average tax rate of 20.7 percent, according to the IRS. This group earned at least $159,619 for the year.
  
  

The Top 1 Percent

• One percent of the population paid 38.02 percent of the tax burden in 2008, and reported an average tax rate of 23.27 percent.
  
  

Read more: The Percentage of Federal Taxes Paid vs. Income | eHow.com The Percentage of Federal Taxes Paid vs. Income | eHow.com

[hojo]

Originally Posted by mr. compassionate

I was throwing that number out based on 50% of the population, obviously some of the population are youths who dont pay taxes but 50% of working americans don't. I believe "working" is around 100 million. So my figure of 150 million was off I should say over 250 million don't pay taxes.



4% pay over 80% of all taxes. Flaco, you're the ignorant one for spouting pro obama bs which is bankrupting this country. What is your solution...oh yeah tax the rich which under Obama's plan brings in 200 billion more. That's nothing when it comes to the yearly deficiti you douche!

4% pay 80%. Is that fair? How do you know they're not supposed to be paying 90% and they're shirking their responsibility?

Throwing out numbers doesn't make them mean anything, especially when they're not even factual.

Employment Situation Summary Table A. Household data, seasonally adjusted
Highlights:
The estimated working population is 243,354,000
Number of employed: 142,220,000
Difference: 101 million (unemployed persons who should or could be employed)
US Population: ~311 million
Those who are not expected to be employed or employable: 68 million


So... lets see, if we have 311 million and 243 million are considered employable and we have 101 million out of work combined with the 68 million that are considered not employable (mostly underage) then we have:

169 million not making any money and not paying taxes on employable income. Not 250 million. You're shy on your extreme numbers by 80 million in direct figuring and by 149 million if you consider that 68 million are not expected to be tax payers.

Mr. C. You're passionate. I get what you're repeating... it's the classic bumper sticker: "Rich people pay Fox people to tell Middle Class people to blame Poor people." I ask you this, however, do you really believe that the unemployed welfare-leaching citizenry (hell, we'll even throw in undocumented workers) lead to the massive financial crisis which nearly doubled unemployment from mid 2000 levels? Do you really believe that if we cut government spending in the areas of necessary programs like social security and education that we will be doing our country a favor? What about companies like Lockheed-Martin, General Dynamics, and Northrop grumman? Those three companies made a combined profit of 7.4 million dollars in 2010. The majority of their business is with the US government meaning tax payer dollars are in those profits. Is that also not a form of welfare that is in major excess?

[Wavester]

I don't fail to understand anything, of course I know taxing the rich more won't fix the budget deficit. But it all goes to fairness and about WHAT we cut. The ryan budget puts the cuts on the middle class and the poor and actually gives more unfuned tax cuts to the wealthy. That sucks! So let me get this straight you want to cut services to the poor and middle class while actually giving the rich a tax break? It's the principle of the thing...and goes to basic fairness. Americans are tired of this BS.

And be careful about throwing around all those stats, remember the saying: "Figures dont lie but liars figure"
The federal buget has only been balanced once in my lifetime since 1970. And guess by who? A Democrat...Clinton. All these these fake fiscal conservative republicans talk a good game but have done nothing but increase the federal deficit, every single one for the last 40 years.

Originally Posted by mr. compassionate

Yes, I must have been listening to Faux News: corrections from CBO-the take away point you fail to grasp is you could tax the wealthy at 100% and it wouldn't fix the spending problem! SPENDING is the problem not the fairness of who pays what!

The Top 10 Percent

• In 2008, 10 percent of the taxpayers paid 69.94 percent of the federal taxes, and paid an average of 18.71 percent of their income in taxes. To qualify for this group, you would have had to have earned at least $113,799 for the year.
  
  

The Top 5 Percent

• Five percent of the taxpayers paid 58 percent of the tax bill in 2008, with an average tax rate of 20.7 percent, according to the IRS. This group earned at least $159,619 for the year.
  
  

The Top 1 Percent

• One percent of the population paid 38.02 percent of the tax burden in 2008, and reported an average tax rate of 23.27 percent.
  
  

Read more: The Percentage of Federal Taxes Paid vs. Income | eHow.com The Percentage of Federal Taxes Paid vs. Income | eHow.com

[mr. compassionate]

Originally Posted by hojo

4% pay 80%. Is that fair? How do you know they're not supposed to be paying 90% and they're shirking their responsibility?

Throwing out numbers doesn't make them mean anything, especially when they're not even factual.

Employment Situation Summary Table A. Household data, seasonally adjusted
Highlights:
The estimated working population is 243,354,000
Number of employed: 142,220,000
Difference: 101 million (unemployed persons who should or could be employed)
US Population: ~311 million
Those who are not expected to be employed or employable: 68 million


So... lets see, if we have 311 million and 243 million are considered employable and we have 101 million out of work combined with the 68 million that are considered not employable (mostly underage) then we have:

169 million not making any money and not paying taxes on employable income. Not 250 million. You're shy on your extreme numbers by 80 million in direct figuring and by 149 million if you consider that 68 million are not expected to be tax payers.

Mr. C. You're passionate. I get what you're repeating... it's the classic bumper sticker: "Rich people pay Fox people to tell Middle Class people to blame Poor people." I ask you this, however, do you really believe that the unemployed welfare-leaching citizenry (hell, we'll even throw in undocumented workers) lead to the massive financial crisis which nearly doubled unemployment from mid 2000 levels? Do you really believe that if we cut government spending in the areas of necessary programs like social security and education that we will be doing our country a favor? What about companies like Lockheed-Martin, General Dynamics, and Northrop grumman? Those three companies made a combined profit of 7.4 million dollars in 2010. The majority of their business is with the US government meaning tax payer dollars are in those profits. Is that also not a form of welfare that is in major excess?

Based on your numbers above I was right...150 million or so people don't work. I'm shocked that those three companies combined only made 7.4 million! Is that right, their ROA and ROI totally suck who would invest in these companies?

I'm blaming no one but the government for their largesse and stealing the wealth of American people through inflation and lining their own pockets with tax dollars and cadillac retirement and health care plans which they exempt themselves of Obama Care. You blame rich people, why can't our country spend within it's limits. As far a people on unemployment and welfare, they should have to work on public works projects if physically able(which brings up another issue how did 80,000 people go on ssi disability last month) and be paid somewhere in the range of minimum wage to earn their money. Maybe this would spur them to take a job underemployed vs. live of the government and do nothing.