Patriotism...

[marko]

Mike, this is a great article about "yellow ribbon patriotism"

http://www.commondreams.org/views07/0108-31.htm

[Mike Harvey]

that is a good article Mark. I am amazed when seemingly intellegent people support a war that they say is about spreading democracy and then in the same breath criticize Americans who exercise thier freedom of speech.

[farp]

I thought that was an interesting article as well. My only issue is when Mike Harvey says that it is undemocratic for people to criticize somebody’s free speech. The first amendment protects you from the government. It doesn’t protect you from criticism. Just because you disagree with somebody’s words, doesn’t mean your first amendment rights are being compromised.

[sj]

My experience were ever I have travled is that. People love and are curious about US citizens. They might dis our Goverment or our involment in their country but. Everwhere everyone has been nice to me and Curious about the US. Maybe some one should travel or at least go some were outside of the lonley Planet guide recomendations. before they make broad statements like that. sj

[Mike Harvey]

I thought that was an interesting article as well. My only issue is when Mike Harvey says that it is undemocratic for people to criticize somebody’s free speech. The first amendment protects you from the government. It doesn’t protect you from criticism. Just because you disagree with somebody’s words, doesn’t mean your first amendment rights are being compromised.

true...in fact criticism and public criticism is sort of the whole point of democracy. My issue is when people say, "you should not criticize the war because it hurts our troops" or "you can't separate support for the troops with condemnation of the war"

it is an impingement on free speach, in my mind, if you try and induce guilt for speaking out or fear of speaking out with the threat that one will be seen as condemning the troops. I view the troops as my peers. my generation. and my criticism of the war is nothing if not support for getting my peers, my generation of countrymen and women home. that and a deep sadness about what is happening to the people of Iraq.

[BastrdSonOfElvis]

Well said. I would say the majority of the people I talk to here are sick of seeing friends blow up and accomplishing nothing and think it's time to get out of here. Criticizing the government for breaching it's agreement with the armed services -- to only put them in harms way when absolutely necessary -- is nothing if not patriotic. Many, many good people who wouldn't otherwise are getting out of the military as soon as possible to avoid future lengthy and dangerous deployments to this theatre and it's weakening the strength of the force meant to defend our nation...this is maybe the worst thing to come of it.

Many soldiers aren't exactly geniuses, that's just the nature of the beast, but I don't think too many misconstrue opposition to the war as opposition to them. That's assinine. If anything, especially at this point, they identify with folks that want them to come home...which I think is damn near everyone by now.

[ToddG]

Originally Posted by BastrdSonOfElvis

I don't think too many misconstrue opposition to the war as opposition to them.

That may be true, but their families & super-patriot next-door neighbors sure seem to have some difficulties separating the two concepts.

Patriotism sucks. To quote my writer friend Chris:

"When large groups of people bond, whether over an activity, religion, politics, or regional affiliation, it is really the sapiens in us showing: territorial chimpanzees willing to fling poo to defend the home colony."

[marko]

Patriotism sucks. To quote my writer friend Chris:Quote:
"When large groups of people bond, whether over an activity, religion, politics, or regional affiliation, it is really the sapiens in us showing: territorial chimpanzees willing to fling poo to defend the home colony."

I love it!! F'ing awesome. And, true.

[Steve Kahn]

hey - i think you guys are talking about the buzz.....or the eddy...or whatever!!!

group of people bonding over an activity

chimpanzees

poo flinging..

sounds familiar.

[BastrdSonOfElvis]

Just wait until we start wildly masterbating.