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Old 01-22-2007   #11
Livingston's Avatar
Denver, Colorado
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 679
RockinRio, that is exactly the kind of response I was looking for. I may reconsider aftre the 60 oz of Guinness and 3/4 bottle of Chianti work through my system.

Marko, literally, couldn't have said it better myself.


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Old 01-22-2007   #12
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 342
We definitely have our problems, but I would never trade the US for another county in the world. Once we get rid of Bush and his cronies, I think things will improve. We can all do our part to stay out of foreing wars in the middle east by getting rid our god da## SUV's. Be a patriot and quit consuming so much foreing oil!!! Farp, I think you put the reasons why we should all love our country very eliquently. Remember, our personal actions have a profound effect on our foreing policy.
Go Team America!!!!
Curtis Martin

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Old 01-22-2007   #13
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 342
Sorry... I thought I wasn't posting. It brought up an error message each time I tried to post.
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Old 01-22-2007   #14
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 388
I think Switzerland's democracy is older than ours.
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Old 01-22-2007   #15
Denver, Colorado
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 81
Food for Thought!

Made in the USA: Spoiled Brats
By Craig R. Smith (New York Times Reporter)

The other day I was reading Newsweek magazine and
came across some poll data I found rather hard to
believe. It must be true given the source, right?
The same magazine that employs Michael (Qurans in
the toilets at Gitmo) Isikoff. Here I promised
myself this week I would be nice and I start off in
this way.

The Newsweek poll alleges that 67 percent of
Americans are unhappy with the direction the country
is headed and 69 percent of the country is unhappy
with the performance of the president. In essence
2/3s of the citizenry just ain't happy and want a change.

So being the knuckle dragger I am, I starting thinking, ''What we are so
unhappy about?''

Is it that we have electricity and running water 24
hours a day, 7 days a week? Is our unhappiness the
result of having air conditioning in the summer and
heating in the winter? Could it be that 95.4 percent
of these unhappy folks have a job? Maybe it is the
ability to walk into a grocery store at any time and
see more food in moments than Darfur has seen in
the last year?

Maybe it is the ability to drive from the Pacific
Ocean to the Atlantic Ocean without having to
present identification papers as we move through
each state? Or possibly the hundreds of clean and
safe motels we would find along the way that can
provide temporary shelter? I guess having thousands
of restaurants with varying cuisine from around
the world is just not good enough. Or could it be that
when we wreck our car, emergency workers show up
and provide services to help all involved . Whether
you are rich or poor they treat your wounds and even,
if necessary, send a helicopter to take you to the hospital.

Perhaps you are one of the 70 percent of Americans
who own a home, you may be upset with knowing that
in the unfortunate case of having a fire, a group of
trained firefighters will appear in moments and use
top notch equipment to extinguish the flames thus
saving you, your family and your belongings. Or if,
while at home watching one of your many flat screen
TVs, a burglar or prowler intrudes; an officer
equipped with a gun and a bullet-proof vest will
come to defend you and your family against attack
or loss. This all in the backdrop of a neighborhood
free of bombs or militias raping and pillaging the
residents. Neighborhoods where 90 percent of
teenagers own cell phones and computers.

How about the complete religious, social and
political freedoms we enjoy that are the envy of
everyone in the world? Maybe that is what has 67
percent of you folks unhappy.

Fact is, we are the largest group of ungrateful,
spoiled brats the world has ever seen. No wonder
the world loves the US , yet has a great disdain for
its citizens. They see us for what we are. The most
blessed people in the world who do nothing but
complain about what we don't have and what we hate
about the country instead of thanking the good Lord
we live here.

I know, I know. What about the president who took us
into war and has no plan to get us out? The president who has a measly
31 percent approval rating? Is this the same president who guided the
nation in the dark days after 9/11? The president
that cut taxes to bring an economy out of recession?
Could this be the same guy who has been called every
name in the book for succeeding in keeping all the spoiled brats safe
from terrorist attacks? The commander-in-chief of an all-volunteer army
that is out there defending you and me?

Make no mistake about it. The troops in Iraq and
Afghanistan have volunteered to serve, and in many
cases have died for your freedom. There is currently
no draft in this country. They didn't have to go.
They are able to refuse to go and end up with either
a ''general'' discharge, an ''other than honorable''
discharge or, worst case scenario, a ''dishonorable'' discharge after a
few days in the brig.

So why then the flat out discontentment in the minds
of 69 percent of Americans? Say what you want but
I blame it on the media. If it bleeds it leads and they specialize in
bad news. Everybody will watch a car crash with blood and guts. How many
will watch kids selling lemonade at the corner? The media
knows this and media outlets are for-profit corporations.
They offer what sells. Just ask why they are going to allow a murderer
like O.J. Simpson to write a book and do a TV special about how he
didn't kill his wife but if he did he was insane!

Stop buying the negative venom you are fed everyday
by the media. Shut off the TV, burn Newsweek and use
the New York Times for the bottom of your bird cage.
Then start being grateful for all we have as a country. There is
exponentially more good than bad.

I close with one of my favorite quotes from B.C. Forbes in 1953:

''What have Americans to be thankful for? More than
any other people on the earth, we enjoy complete
religious freedom, political freedom, social
freedom. Our liberties are sacredly safeguarded by
the Constitution of the United States, 'the most
wonderful work ever struck off at a given time by
the brain and purpose of man.' Yes, we Americans
of today have been bequeathed a noble heritage. Let
us pray that we may hand it down unsullied to our
children and theirs.''

I suggest we sit back and count our blessings for
all we have. If we don't, what we have will be taken
away. Then we will have to explain to future
generations why we squandered such blessing and
abundance. If we are not careful this generation
will be known as the ''greediest and most ungrateful
generation.'' A far cry from the proud Americans of
the ''greatest generation'' who left us an untarnished legacy.
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Old 01-22-2007   #16
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 152

There are a few places in the world that match our freedoms, and our prosperity. Places like Canada, New Zealand, Australia and some of Western Europe.

We've got problems that are superficial. The rest of the world has problems that actually impact their daily lives. Significantly. Our expensive gasoline is not their long line to buy scarce food. Our embarrssment of a President is not their brutal dictator. Our Trout Bobber is not their... Well, Trout Bobber is in a class by himself.

Asking questions and provoking thought are indeed worthy pursuits.

I imagine that a political dissident in another country would have bigger and better questions to pose and thoughts to provoke. As well as much greater consequences than what the MountainBuzzards can deal out.

--Just another perspective.
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Old 01-22-2007   #17
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 152
There does seem to be some REAL PROBLEM with MountainBuzz. This error message that you get after posting leads only to multiple posting and that is ridiculous and infringes on my good sensibilities.

I am moving to China.
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Old 01-23-2007   #18
BastrdSonOfElvis's Avatar
Thought-criminal, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2000
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 989
Nice argument, simpletons: "it could be worse, so shut up". I guess you could say that to anyone who wasn't burned over 90% of their body or in the iron maiden. "Shut up parapalegic, as least you can move your arms! Look at that guy over there, can't even blink!" That logic is so ridiculous you should be ashamed to have even made the statement.

"Unhappy with a direction" doesn't mean ungrateful for what you have, it means concerned that your quality of life is about to precipitously decline, which is not a frivolous or unwarranted sentiment given the unprecedented growth in our deficit and the cuts made to essential programs to support the unchecked spending on a needless war. Add neglectful apathy toward the environment into the equasion and you have yourself a course that two thirds of Americans -- which encompasses all the reasonable people out there and half of the morons -- are concerned about.

American policy right now is unsustainable. That is the bottom line. Would you carelessly float toward a horizon line without scouting it out? In this particular creek the drop below is class six and you're about to get f'd up. We all are if things don't change pretty immediately.

Jesus. I can't believe...ah fuck it.

You know what -- I saw a girl lose both her legs above the knee last night and a 19yo kid lose sight in both his eyes. For what? Maybe that is what 2/3 or Americans are concerned with. So go suck a dick.
I hope in the future Americans are thought of as a warlike, vicious people, because I bet a lot of high schools would pick "Americans" as their mascot. -Jack Handy
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Old 01-23-2007   #19
Livingston's Avatar
Denver, Colorado
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 679
No wonder
the world loves the US , yet has a great disdain for
its citizens.
I don't think that is accurate judging from my conversations. Quite the opposite. Overall, that article is not very persuasive in it's argument or approach. "Exponentially more good than bad", how does one determine if "Big SUV > "being spied on". That guy is an idiot.

Does anyone else see the contradiction in the final quote? "I suggest we sit back and count our blessings for all we have. If we don't, what we have will be taken away."

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Old 01-23-2007   #20
Mike Harvey's Avatar
Salida, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1993
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 805
so not to make this topic go a different direction but I was reading this topic and had to share this gem from our local paper. This is typical of the kind of simple minded crap a Salida resident is subjected to if you read our paper and I think beautifully illustrates the way that many people feel about patriotism...

Sign, consequence
An area bed and breakfast owner related an experience to us of a Fort Carson U.S. Army officer and his wife spending a weekend in Salida.

The couple decided to take a break at one of Salida's F Street bistros, but when they walked up to the entrance of the first establishment they came to, they found a sign slapped to the door that said something like, "2,900 Americans dead in Iraq - how many more have to die?"

Offended at the obvious message, the couple decided to take their business elsewhere.

The signs had appeared briefly downtown a few weeks ago. They apparently were put up on doors and windows of various businesses by an individual or group opposed to the war. But whoever put them up probably had not gotten permission from business owners to place the messages since, a few days later, the signs were not to be seen.

Downtown merchants struggle to attract customers, competing against big boxes and metro malls for business. It's rather doubtful if any downtown merchant would refuse to serve anyone just because they wear their country's uniform. In fact, most if not every Salida business would welcome the troops in their doors.

But putting up political signs is an obvious slap-in-the-face to servicemen and women. They don't buy the flawed logic of "We support the troops but not the war." Every member of this country's armed forces is a volunteer. They willingly accepted the risks of service, knowing they could be putting their lives on the line when they joined the military.

In the eyes of soldiers, sailors, airmen and marines, you can't be against the war and in support of the troops at the same time. As professionals, as Americans they accept the missions they are asked to perform. They believe in the cause of freedom, for America and the world.

So it's not difficult to see why servicemen and women would object to politically-motivated messages confronting them in places they might go to for a bit of rest and relaxation.

Regardless of their own beliefs on the war, most shop owners have no intention, no desire to offend anyone who wears or who has worn their country's uniform. Merchants nonetheless may want to be more wary and concerned with the messages going up on their store's doors, walls and windows.

When the Salida City Council debated a couple of months ago passage of an anti-war resolution, more than a few veterans said if the city approved such a proposal, they would take their business elsewhere.

Apparently, those currently serving in the military feel much the same way.


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