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Old 10-16-2005   #21
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 1
I did read your entire post. Mut's comment about the 80 hours appeared to be for the purpose of egging you on.
However, after reading your post in its entirety I have come to the opinion that you fall into the general class of physicians. That is, you are an arrogant, pompous, condescending, jerk. Get off your "oh I do so much for society and am so enlightened" soap box. I gather you work in an ED in Denvar. Do you volunteer? Where do you stand on C & D? I guess that you will vote 'no'. Does that mean that you are willing to continue to work your 80 hour weeks and not expect to be compensated by the Medicaid or other indigent patients? Or does that mean that you'll vote no and not care because you'll just turn around and ask the hospital to cough up the difference?

What is your schedule? 11.5 hour for 7 days a week? 13.3 hours a day 6 days a week? 16 hours a days 5 days a week? or is it 4 20's? I sure would hate to show up on you 16th hour of a busy day for an emergency procedure. Please elaborate on the safety of your long shifts.

I have no animosity toward you, I don't even know you. But, per my first amendment right, I too think you are full of it.

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Old 10-16-2005   #22
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 66
Hasn't anyone around here heard of medical school and residency???? Residents are MD's that used to put in 110-120 hrs/wk until 2001 when congress passed a law limiting work hours to 80/wk averaged over a 4 week period and no more than 30 hr shifts--usually call shifts that occur every 4th day/night/day. I know you all frequent your private family practice physicians that probably do work a normal work week but they all put there time in also during residency. It's called academic medicine and attendings (one of which I am not) can often approach 80 hrs.
Second, I do not work in the ED, I don't have shifts, I don't have a punch card and I don't leave at a certain time each day. I leave when the shit gets done.
If using facts and normal rules debate (meaning just because what I say pisses you off and so you insult me or my beliefs) means that I am arrogant and condescending then call me guilty. I have normal conversations using the same tone that I used in previous posts with many of my fellow colleagues and they don't feel that I'm being arrogant or or condescending so maybe the problem lies with you and the fact that you are unable to have such a conversation. That's one of the problems I have with posting on this site, I write something and all I get back (except from Aaron and a few others) is steam loaded, emotional based personal slashes--and aaron if you were just posting that stuff for fun then my apologies.
Last, I doubt that many of you get down to see Denver Health too often or know what it looked like before. So if we want to talk about C and D and cuts to health care you should all take a drive. Take 6th ave down to Bannock and look around. You'll notice to your left the old brown Denver General building. All of the building surrounding that intersection are brand new and have been built since the so called budgetary cut problems began in 2001. Thay are on all four corners. Also notice the big hole just before Bannock that is for another new building in the works. Turn left on Bannock and on you left will be the newly remodeled ED--again since the Health Care budget cuts. Turn Left on Speer and then make another left on 8th and as you pass Denver Health again from the North notice the new west wing finished last year and the next farther west addition being built now. All in all, Denver Health has doubled in size since the budget crisis caused by TABOR and the recession. Where did all the money come from???? (OK now that was a little condescending!!!!) Maybe it came from the fact that the Colorado State Budget increased by 7% last year to an all time high of 16 billion dollars--almost double what it was when TABOR was instituted in 1992. Now, since I am intimately associated also with the Univeristy of Colorado School of Medicine I could go on about mismanagement of funds there also. As for K-12 education, I'm sure the teachers know this and I feel your pain. At least in Jeffco, every administrator makes 6 figures plus and every time a bond passes all they do is hire more administrators. Don't believe me, look at the budget. When the budget is not adequate, instead of doing what is right for the kids and cutting administrator salaries or chopping off a few of the excess, they get rid of the teachers and put the kids in smaller classrooms and then ask for more money so they can protect themselves. I just had this conversation with a teacher at Chatfield on Friday night over dinner so I'm not pulling this out of my ass. If I really believed that politicians were honest and would use any more of the money the money that we give them to better use I might think about it but they just take and take--every year there is a new ref asking for more and I don't believe that my kid's education will ever get any better no matter how much we allow the gov to spend. Why? Because, they are the gov without incentive to be efficient and produce results. I've written a novel and for anyone who has decided to read this--congratulations. I am again retiring from politics on the buzz but will read all your nasty posts about me so please don't hold back.

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Old 10-16-2005   #23
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 151
Well, regardless of the content or character of any of the parties involved on this thread, MedMan certainly has the best coherency in his (presumably) syntax and reasoning.

Cayo, your message is from the heart and gut, your passion comes across. However, your delivery ensures that you will be schooled in any written conversation.

All this being said, Medman sounds like a dick; Cayo would be better to drink beer with. This may be the distillation of the Conservative-Liberal perception and juxtaposition.
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Old 10-17-2005   #24
Front Range, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2005
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 274
DISCLAIMER: What I'm about to post has absolutely ZERO relevance to the political discussion at hand; as deliciously tempting as casting a hat into the ring may be, it's a) a Monday, and b) still early here, and I'm just not feeling much like a debate.

I am posting to take issue with your comment about general practice physicians and family practice clinicians. I wasn't offended by your post , just thought it should be clarified many of those docs put in just as much work and as many hrs as the rest of you ED/ facility-based folks. While family practictioners may not be on the same crazy shift system, factor in a 5-6 regular day work week with 10 - 12 hr shifts, plus call, plus charting and office mgmt crap that either goes home with 'em or they stay late to wrap up, and no one specialty or work situation is outpacing the other when it's all said and done.... those long hrs aren't just for you elitists with sub-specialties anymore! (KIDDING-- sort of.... )

OK, I was also initially reading your C & D references above as a "D&C" (procedure), which clearly says to me *someone's* in need of a vacation. ugh. Guess I get to jump back in here this morning instead.....
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Old 10-17-2005   #25
pnw, Washington
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,404
C & D refer to Referendum C & D for Colorado's November election. Has to do with the state keeping tax refunds.
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Old 10-17-2005   #26
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 112
can't resist a political thread. although I don't have time to read all of Medman's posts or offer anything on that scale I'll note the following about C&D:

1) Colo. Budget is not at all time high. It was at an it's peak in 2001. TABOR has a ratchet effect and it cannot raise to high point except over time.

2) In Colorado there are certain things that are nondiscretionary funding. Medicaid and K-12 education being the primary ones. In 1989-90 fiscal year, medicaid took 13.1% of the funding pie. In 05/05 it will take 22%. Guess will that number will go in future?

K-12 education will take 42% of of pie on 05/06. So in two areas that are non-discretionary, 64% is gone. B/c of our constiution guess where that number will go in the future? (For those of you who don't know the State Constiution mandates increases in this area)

3) The number one expenditure for any goverment department is personnel expenses. This includes health care benefits. Guess where that number is going?

4) Guess where the price of energy is going? Another major expense for all goverment entities.

So we have the budget pie being increasingly gobbled by two programs and the other portion of the pie shrinking for everyone else while thier costs are rising. That amount to DEEP CUTS for everyone, except K-12 and Medicaid.

That is why C&D needs to be passed.

TABOR has some sound ideas, but it uses sledgehammer appproach for a very complex problem. It fails to account for the fact that expenses may very well outpace normal inflation, which they have. It fails to account that more goverment spending is needed in times of recession, not less (Even W knows this). It fails to mesh with the mandated nondiscretionary spending. Accordingly, even if goverment is operating under max efficiency cuts are inevitable.
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Old 10-17-2005   #27
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 498
Gh to answer your question and throw out a couple of zingers. When Republicans won the last election as they did. Part of the spoils were Supreme court niminations. A person can complain all they want but this battle was decided in 04 not now. Clinton got 2 now Bush will get 2. Personaly I am ok with Roberts as I think he will use his keen legal mind and is a man of great intergrity(seemingly). Meirs is'nt qualified IMO. All administrations practice cronyism but generaly not in somrthing as important as the Supreme court. I would rather see a brillant legal mind that I am 180 degrees from politicaly than what I perceive to be a blantant thanks for suporting me all these years pick. just my thoughts.

medman last time you participated in a political thread you whined about being attacked personaly for your beleifs yet in you second sentance in this thread you personaly attack cayo for a post that was a little inflamatory at best. a double standard imo. And no matter how much you whine i will not feel sorry for you did we make you choose to be a doctor? sj
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Old 10-17-2005   #28
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 206
My brother recently finished his residency and whatever else it is and I can say that Medman is right on the workload, call it on the job training in the busiest and most stressful environment you can imagine for lilttle or no pay, it is definately a way to weed out the weak. All I can say is that it has been proven time after time that no matter how much money the gov throws at something it always takes more. How long can we tolerate increasing the budgets of everything (schools, roads, health...) spending more and more, while watching the quality go down. We spend more per student with inflation figured in now than we did lets say in the 50's or 60's however our schools have gotten worse, that can only mean mismanagement, then again how can we exoect our school districts to make wise decisions when we are using elected officials that do not have to have any educational or managerial background to head school boards, just look at the StVraini school district as an example. Look at how much it cost Central City to build that new highway and time frame it took compared to the typical government funded roadway. I myself will vote yes for C, I don't really care if I get the $30 or so back, but I will not vote for D to allow them to borrow even more money on top of what they will get with C, especially with no restrictions on where the money will be going.
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Old 10-17-2005   #29
pnw, Washington
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,404
sj, i agree
matobs, you work for the govt? get riled up, thats just the first strong arguement for c & d that i have heard..
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Old 10-17-2005   #30
Spits Hot Fire
N. Cascades, Washington
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 978
ahhh, political threads. I'm not touchin this with a ten-foot clown pole, Hey newby, check your pm's.

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