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Old 11-08-2005   #101
Seattle, Washington
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 207
Alrighty then, the truth comes out.

You've stated in previous threads that you work 80+ hours a week. Never heard of a PA doing that, gotta commend ya there.

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Old 11-08-2005   #102
pnw, Washington
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,404
Since I have been one of the main players in religous debates on this forum in the past, this has been a very difficult thread to stay away from. I give up and will jump in.
Cayo, well said about us outspending the Russians. Does anyone think that Al Qaeda is doing the same thing to us now? Basically using very inexpensive methods to goad us into spending billions with no return? Eventually bringing us down by having us go bankrupt and without ever using a WMD, destroy our way of living?
SJ, you are correct. Everytime Medmen joins this forum he appears whiny and self serving. I do respect your right to choose your faith as you respect mine to not choose a life based on faith.
Medman, please stop expecting us to make you feel better about your choices when you condemn ours. It is very boring.
I try not to give into the paranoia about the religous rights agenda but it is very difficult when you live in Colorado Springs. I will however enjoy the day that Bush is no longer in the White House. Peace.

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Old 11-08-2005   #103
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 58
I don't like those economics quotes either, here is why.

(1) Reagan has no credibility to comment on the national debt. 2004 Fiscal year interest expense on the debt was $321,566,323,971.29.

This debt was exacerbated by Reagan and both Bushes. Clinton inherited a debt and a deficit from the first Bush. He proceeded to pass a very reasonable tax increase, cut fedroll payrolls and judiciously control discretionary spending by the executive branch. Clinton was a moderate, and a very fiscally respnsible one (the term fiscally conservative is not well served by recent conservative presidents).

(2) Rush Limbaugh connects Reagan's tax cut which took effect in 1982 with 92 months of economic growth. The connection here is equally justified as the "Pirates vs. Global Warming" graph promoted by FSMism.
After Reagan's initial tax cut, he proceded to raise taxes several times. One erased a substantial portion of the initial cut and another was the largest corporate tax hike in US history.

One could just as easily argue that the 92 months of economic growth were caused by these tax hikes, of course, this would be just as wrong as Rush Limbaugh. Changes in the overall tax rate can "tune" economic output up or down, but they are not the underlying cause. Any exception to this will be an excesive case, ie, doubling the marginal tax rate would cause a recession.

(3) Ludwig von Mises subscribed to the Austrian school of economics which is not entirely accepted by the mainstream of conservative economics. This school is opposed by progressive economists on the basis of content and methods.

(4) Like Mises, Milton Friedman is a libertarian.

Your collection of conservative economics quotes would be better titled:

"Libertarian Economics quotes and Reagan/Limbaugh BS"


This site is almost as fun as the FSM site, but it is not PETA-friendly:
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Old 11-08-2005   #104
BastrdSonOfElvis's Avatar
Thought-criminal, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2000
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 989
That shit in Kansas makes me sick to my stomach...the kind of cretinism that makes me almost too ashamed to travel abroad.

Sweeeet. If only I could drive a golf ball as far as I can drive a penguin.

I don't know about anybody else, but I got a case of the vapors at medman's concession speach. Now that he has been vanquished, what will we do without our red-headed stepchild? Who else is foolhardy enough to take on subject matter they know little about based on some spin they heard on fox news and some naive misconceptions and go head to head with a panel of experts and wiseasses? We even somehow beat a confession out of him that he's kind of a poser...although to his credit I've known PA's with whom I'd place a lot more trust than a lot of doctors.

Nevertheless, I think it's important to realize that if we ran into medman on the river, he'd probably be a really sweet dude. Because really, it's not polite to talk about politics at the dinner table or in the eddy. And when we're on the water...we really are all the same religion. Some of us just don't go to "communion" (PUFF DOWN).

So, medman, if you're reading this, I'm kind of glad I won't have to look at one of your thousand word essays and wonder "is it worth it?" BUT, I hope to someday share a cold, non-alcoholic, coca-cola bottled beverage with you at the takeout and reminisce about the good times on the buzz, when the water was shallow and so was the snow. Peace, bro.

Just please, PLEASE, don't vote for Jeb/Condaleeza in '08.
I hope in the future Americans are thought of as a warlike, vicious people, because I bet a lot of high schools would pick "Americans" as their mascot. -Jack Handy
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Old 11-08-2005   #105
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 748
reagan cut taxes because advice from Aurthur Lafer the now head of the economics department at cal berkely. It is debateable but acording to lafer's theories tax revenue is diminishing to an optimal point when increasing the tax rate begins to have negative returns and overall revenue actually decreases. This is due to an assumption that with high levels of taxes people actually become less productive because they get to keep less of their high earned money. I don't know whether i buy this but regan was listening to intelligent minds on the subject.

as far as I can tell bush cut taxes only to get elected.
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Old 11-08-2005   #106
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 13
But you have to remember that Reagan (although he denied it, and said he was letting the market control it) was using a Keynesian model of economics which creates deficits through government spending in times of economic downturn to deflect the creation of massive depression which has been largely successful (no massive depression since) as it was in this case and Clinton rode the wave of prosperity. Many on the right don't want to admit this and even more interesting is the left uses the deficits against the right but this is considered a liberal idea (Keynes was a liberal) since government gets involved instead of letting the market run its course.
Don't get me wrong, RL's statement had a lot of spin on it but don't lose site of what was really happening at the time and what was the result from 92-2001. I just figure it's not all black and white, cut and dry.

Just read BrianK's post and maybe he knows more about it than I do.
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Old 11-08-2005   #107
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 58
I think I agree with you, in terms of Raegan's hidden keynesian policies and the general murkiness. I also believe that Reagan's tax cuts (which were not fully implemented, and then gradually repealed) were fuelled by Laffer's theory.

Limbaugh likes to talk about this theory and take it a step further to claim that cutting taxes will actually create higher tax revenue. Cutting taxes creates more ouput which results in more taxable income. Despite the lower tax rate, this purports to collect more gross tax revenue. I think this theory is true for some economies like socialist sweeden or various developing countries with rediculous tax schedules. However, I don't think it is a matter of fact for all western countries, as limbaugh and others claim. If you could prove it for the US economy under reasonable assumptions then you might have a juicy cash prize and a trip to sweeden in your future. Maybe I'm mistaken, but that is how I see it.

I wasn't trying to be authoritarian earlier.....because.. I'm no authority.

anybody beat 316 feet on the penguin toss?
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Old 11-08-2005   #108
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Thought-criminal, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2000
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Posts: 989
320.....point 5. Bitch.
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Old 11-09-2005   #109
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 35
Ban the IRS

Hooray for the FairTax
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Old 11-09-2005   #110
Front Range, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2005
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 274
Yo BSoE--
Thought it might be worth pointing out, LDS'ers don't do "coca cola".... too much emphasis on the coca, my friend.

Looks like you'll have to find another cold, frothy, and decidedly caffeine-free non-alcoholic libation to share with your newfound friend.

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