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Old 07-18-2007   #1
Self-Aggrandizing jackass
heliodorus04's Avatar
The Ranch, Colorado
Paddling Since: 04
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Michael Vick dogfighting charges

I’m kind of floored by this whole Vick thing. I’m not a Vick fan or a Vick hater. He’s fun to watch play, extremely talented, and I was able to overlook a couple of minor transgressions I saw previously (the herpes thing, and the secret compartment water bottle – not worth getting my dander up over either one).

When I heard about this dogfighting thing, I thought: He’s probably not so stupid as to be involved. I think a lot of these guys with sudden financial largess tend to share with their boys and let them have free rein around the crib. Rock’n’Roll is full of such stories, from Ted Nugent to M.C. Hammer to Billy Joel. The star may handle the financial windfall well, but he doesn’t realize the true nature of his so-called friends until he gives them enough rope (and his own money) to hang themselves with.
What I’ve read now, from excerpts of the Grand Jury testimony, is sickening. And it looks like Vick not only knew full well what was going on, he participated. The most damning stuff from the indictment that I saw was that Vick himself handed over $23,000 in prize money to a man (now cooperating with prosecutors, which I do understand can lead him to be interested in lying against others to protect himself) after the guy’s two dogs beat two of Vick’s dogs.

Dogfighting and any kind of cruelty to animals is heinous to begin with. But hearing how these guys (and it sounds like Vick knew of the activity or possibly participated) killed animals that lost, or that didn’t show “promise” as fighters is enough to make me seethe with rage at him.
I don’t know what the hell Goodell is going to do. I’m not sure what he SHOULD do, because I believe in “innocent until proven guilty.” Other stuff may come out, but I also know enough about the judicial system to know that when a GRAND JURY indicts you, you’re in hot and boiling water of evidence that points well through “reasonable doubt.” Not always, but often.

What I know is that Americans fucking LOVE animals. Probably more than children. And while a small group of vocal pro-Vick people may raise the voice that this is racism (which is ABSURD) or that he’s innocent until proven otherwise, I think the NFL and especially the Atlanta Falcons have a Magnitude 9.0 Earthquake disaster in their PR departments.

If you’ve read the allegations (which I’ve read excerpts of), you’re going to be incensed, and hearing Vick’s name is going to make you sick. SICK!

So I don’t see how the Falcons can put the guy on the field and have a fan base that will support the team. It seems to me that the Falcons themselves should want to see Vick suspended by the NFL until such time as the charges are very clearly sorted out, and if there is exculpatory evidence, that it’s broadcast far and wide. Even then, it seems undeniable that this stuff happened on Vick’s property and by his so-called friends, and I think that’s damning enough that Vick is ruined for a wide majority of NFL fans (and every female NFL fan who isn’t a Vick/Falcons fan-girl).

Because I’m bored at work a lot, I know about Pacman Jones and some of these other so-called scandals. Pacman, who seems to have done some ugly things, did it to people, who can speak out and defend themselves. What’s going to rise from the animal-rights people (of which I am one) is going to make Vick out to be a Hitler-ian freaking bucher.
I’m absolutely fucking floored that anyone would do this kind of thing with animals, disgusted to the highest level I can be disgusted. I’m not sure why I hope Vick is somehow completely removed from the scenes I’m hearing described. Like I said, I guess I liked watching his athleticism, he brought me enjoyment playing a cool game, and I feel this desperate need to believe he’s not a person who could do such things. Denial, I guess, ahead of grief. But what I’ve read looks very damning, and he’s enough in the picture that at the least, he observed and directed, and probably participated. And I simply can’t forgive that kind of shit. He should be exiled to some harsh wilderness where he has to fend for his own survival in the wild alone, reduced to an animal himself, if this stuff is true. And I guess right now, I’m thinking, “holy shit, it looks like it is…”

I heard one NFL player, on Sirius’ NFL channel, saying that it was racism, and that if it were a white player, it wouldn’t raise such a concern. That’s complete ignorance. Like I said, Americans LOVE their animals, and I think women especially are going to go ape-shit over this (if they pay any attention to NFL matters).

I don’t care if it were Peyton Freakin Manning who were accused. The reputation of any player is, in my opinion, irrevocably shattered. I can’t see Vick ever being on a field where he isn’t boo’d and disgraced, and I can’t see any team wanting to have him on their roster for fear of the kind of backlash it’s going to generate with animal lovers.

"self-aggrandizing jackass" - it says it right on the label
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Old 07-18-2007   #2
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Lyons, Colorado
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Classic ACC morals and ethics!!

Go Dawgs!!!
Happiness is a way of travel not a destination
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Old 07-22-2007   #3
The next zone, .
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As someone who owns a pitt bull and has been around many of these dogs for my entire life I have to comment.

First Innocent until proven guilty is still true in America the last time I checked. For me until Vic is convicted of a crime he is innocent - after the conviction it will be different. End of that story for me.

Most people I know have a cousin out there that we would not want to take the credit for what they did. This is part of the case against Vic. Many questions - I will wait for the trial to pass judgment against the one person - most times the judge and jury does a better job than I ever could anyway.

As far as the race thing. Something to think about. These were black guys fighting dogs. Thank god they were not hookin them up to sleds and forcing them to run across Alaska! The ididrod (sp) and other private and commercial dog sledding operations kill, lame, and run to death way more dogs than Vic and boys could in 20 years of fightin. Just my opinion but if this (idedrod) race was run with pitts in the deep south or the hood - it would be illegal.

Since we are on the subject of race and pitts. The ban of pitts, staffies, and many times boxers, down in the stupidity that is known as the front range, is not against such dogs. It is against the people who own such dogs. This law was the best way to ensure that hood trash does not end up in my neighborhood. IMO racially motivated flat out.

I would not fight dogs, or force them to live on a 3' by 3' chunk of chain until they are hooked up to a sled. I guess I hate when people say they are not playin the race card - when they are playin the race card - and force the pitt bull into the scapegoat role.
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Old 07-22-2007   #4
Join Date: Apr 2006
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Ban the deed, not the breed

Keep in mind a couple things: Not everyone who has a pitbull or two is a drug dealer or a dogfighter, my female is a registered therapy dog. The number one biting dog in Jefferson County and Colorado is a Lab. Any dog can bite . Mike Vick, if he is guilty, should be hung by his balls, if you can find them. Lastly, before Denver and Aurora people start throwing rocks they need to remember that Denver and Aurora have killed over1200 pitbulls and pit mixes. Thats right 1200 dogs. So while we try Mike Vick we should also be consious of the amount of pits who have done nothing wrong who have been murdered by these two cities governments. Family pets were taken from peoples homes and killed. Ban the deed, not the breed.
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Old 07-23-2007   #5
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A guy named Beaudreux and his son were arrested last year for dogfighting and got I think two years in prison. He was known as the "grandfather of dogfighting", he was a white guy. The cops are not just going after african- americans, they are getting who they can. Mike Vick is a celebrity who got caught. He should get the harshest penalty possible, if this stuff is true. Not because he is black but because he is a horrible person, and a horrible role model for kids.
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Old 07-23-2007   #6
Gnarnia, Colorado
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As a dog owner, I realize that most problem dogs and dog problems are really owner problems. There are just some folks that shouldn't have dogs (for a variety of reasons). I personally don't like pitts, rotties, boxers, etc. They scare me and I try to avoid them at all cost. I know that there are great ones out there but if you look at bit statistics from the Center for Disease Control, those are the breeds that typically attack, maim and kill people year in and year out.

I got bit by a bulldog last year (and English bull - not on the list of common biters) and now I'm more skiddish around the 'problem' breeds than ever before because getting bit by a dog sucks. The hospital visit, the shots, the antibiotics, the police, the court system the f-ing pain in my hand that got bit, etc. It was a serious hassle, which made me think about what one goes through in a more serious attack. Because dumbasses can't be controlled, we have to control the breeds they have access to. Period.

I really can't understand why anyone would even want to deal with a breed that is known to attack - I know all dogs can attack but I'm referring to the ones that do so on a regular basis. What's the point??

DOG BITE LAW - Statistics about dog bites in the USA and elsewhere
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Old 07-23-2007   #7
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Sorry about the bulldog bite. Too bad you dont like those breeds. Chances are, I would like your dog. I've been bit a number of times in my line of work and feel your pain. The study you referenced is a study on fatalities of which there are 12 to 17 a year. Those were not all pitbulls or all Rotties all boxers. The studies claim that those are the breeds most responsible for fatalities not bites. It also depends on the popularity of the breed in the area. Typically, the most biting dog in an area is also the most popular dog in the area. In Jefferson county, it's a Lab. I stlll think Labs rock. It is really how people treat their dogs. I have two pitbulls and a boxer. My Boxer does therapy work at Exempls Luthern hospital. My femal Pitbull does therapy work at an old folks home. Both are registered with Therapy Dogs International. One thing to remember also is that the news does not report bites that are not Pitbulls. I didn't see a news story about a guy from Lyons who got bit by a Bulldog. I reported a bite that required 28 stitches to close on a kid to 9 News and asked if it was going to be on the news. The guy said yes, and it wasn't. The dog was a Husky and was euthanized.
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Old 07-23-2007   #8
Gnarnia, Colorado
Join Date: Jun 2006
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egilaspy1 - I hear ya. Sounds like you have some great dogs. How do you know that the pit won't just freak out one day and latch onto someone? I guess I question if a loving, caring owner can overcome a breed's genetic predisposition for aggression.

Not to hijack this thread but what about having your dogs around people like me who are uncomfortable around those breeds - don't your dogs sense that, i.e. the fear? I just get all edgy around pits, boxers, rotties and the like and will go out of my way (crossing the street, get back in the car, wait to get out of the car, etc.) to avoid them.
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Old 07-24-2007   #9
Join Date: Apr 2006
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I know my dogs so I know they won't just freak out. They have proven their temperment to me over and over. They are horrible guard dogs. That myth about pitbulls "snapping" is just that, a myth. Just like the "lockjaw" thing thats also bullshit. Anytime you want to come over and hang with my dogs drop me a line, I would love to help and give you some positive experiences with the breed. Thanks for listening with an open mind. My phone # is 303-550-2188 seriously come over next time you are around Golden or Wheatridge area. Thanks again Eric
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Old 07-24-2007   #10
The next zone, .
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Right on egillaspy - a good example of most to all pitt bull owners out there.

"the stupidity that is the front range" - to me is ANYONE who lives where these laws allow over 1000 dogs who did nothing wrong but be born many times into a loving family are put to death. You are more guilty in my mind than Vick. At least Vick gave his dogs a fighting chance at life and has not been proven guilty yet.

I would not fight any dog but I can at least see where if you compare the two there is at least some honor and a fighting chance in what Vic did, when compared to the laws of the front range. The laws in denver are flat stupid, racist, and no honor what so ever can be found in gettin a dog out of someone's truck and killing it for no other reason than what it looked like.

While visiting my Aunt a couple of years ago, I knew I was in a area that did not allow pitt mixes or the like so I left him in my car. Next thing I know durring dinner no less there is a couple taking a keen ineterst in my truck. I go out say hello and ask if there is a problem. Here is what I got "that is a pitt bull - you know I can call and have it removed from your car and taken away"

A dog locked in a truck is a problem? I had to leave before the cops showed up and took my dog away. Missed the rest of dinner and the lot.

Stupidity - all I can say.

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