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Old 03-16-2008   #11
mvhyde
 
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Maybe it's time we.....

Actually charge the Iraqi's for the total cost of the war. Take 1/2 their oil free of charge for the next 100 years. Build Islamic versions of Wal-mart in every major Iraqi city. Have them hire Britney Spears as their Minister of Arts and Music. Let them hang Michael jackson for us free of charge and trial. But we must get their cash and oil
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Old 03-18-2008   #12
cayo 2

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Our tax dollars pay for it and the contractors,privatizers,and their cronies steal it [reconstruction and oil money].The oil companies already get the lions share of the revenue[part of it legitimate for services rendered],but they ,and OPEC,want production low they make more in the long run by jacking up the. cost. The stolen money is in their profit statements and unaccounted for monies ends up in off shore[non taxable] bank accounts.

Security concerns have slowed production as well.I don't know what Iraq's pre or post SADDAM profit sharing arrangement with the oil companies was/is ,but they threw a fit when Chavez lowered their cut from 84% to 70% still ultra lucrative,they have recorded record profits in several consecutive quarters/years.Production slows,prices soar,reserves at all time highs ,doesn't matter they rake in the bucks and to hell with the rest of us.
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Old 03-18-2008   #13
cayo 2

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Why should Iraq pay us for occupying and trashing their country? OH i forgot we are helping them ,what a load of crap.As HARD AS IT IS TO IMAGINE THEY WERE PROBABLY BETTER OFF WITH sADDAM,AND SO WAS THE REGION AND THE US,things may improve and it could pay off , but so far wev'e made things worse not better no matter how much republicans want to lie about it!
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Old 03-19-2008   #14
heliodorus04
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Sad but true. They were "better off" with Saddam. Maybe not if you were a Shia, or a good-looking woman, but there was more stability. But as a caveat to that, Cayo, we'll never know what 20 more years of Saddam might have been like, to compare with where Iraq will be in 15. My guess is that in 15 more years, Iraq will be "better off" the way things went than had the Hussein regime continued on to his children or such. But I'm an optimist.

Meanwhile, in 15 years, hopefully the US will be re-establishing its economic strength and will hopefully be turning into a place where people live free again.

"Be nice to America or we'll bring democracy to YOUR country."
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Old 03-21-2008   #15
heliodorus04
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Here's as good a reflection on my own feelings about what I thought in 2003 and what I think now. It's by my favorite real conservative, Andrew Sullivan.

It's entitled "What I got wrong"

Please read it.

The Daily Dish | By Andrew Sullivan
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Old 03-22-2008   #16
cayo 2

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thanx Helio,that was an interesting take on why conservatives bought into Bush's bs.
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Old 03-22-2008   #17
cayo 2

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Maybe we do have some common ground MVHYDE,i like the idea of sending Jacko over there,can you moonwalk on a naked human pyramid ?
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Old 03-25-2008   #18
heliodorus04
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Been thinking of this talk from some of my fellow veterans who say "If we pull out now, all those men will have died in vain..." and I think the proper response is:

If we don't pull out now, then those 55,000 in Vietnam may have died in vain.

I can't stomach it anymore. Get my country out of Iraq now!
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Old 03-25-2008   #19
Livingston
 
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dying in vain

WHEN or HOW we pull out doesn't change WHY those 4000 troops died.
They died because Bush started a war based on lies and false intelligence constructed to support his plans for invading Iraq that predated 9/11/2001 that put America on the moral low ground.

Those troops did their job and followed their orders. Bush and co., Congress, and the American people continue to not do their job.

-d
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Old 03-26-2008   #20
heliodorus04
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Very interesting articles today about the Shiite division happening in Southern Iraq.

This is the best of the six I've read today (in terms of getting you the facts to draw the big picture):
Backing the Wrong Horse? - American Footprints

Money quote:
Quote:
For the Bush administration, backing ISCI/Dawa is appealing for a few reasons. First, ISCI/Dawa are amenable to the US presence, whereas the Sadrist current is strongly opposed. So ensuring that ISCI maintains its political power is essential to the goals of maintaining permanent military bases and gaining preferential access to oil residing in the Shiite-dominated south. Ensuring the legitimacy of the democratic process is, apparently, not quite as important.
The Bush administration is trying to marginalize one of the most popular national leaders in Iraq so that he can prop up a marginal power that promises it will give us long-term bases and oil rights.

If ever you were looking for proof this war is about oil, read the above.

Jesus H. Christ I'm angry about this right now.
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