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Old 03-26-2009   #71
timbuktu, Colorado
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Originally Posted by marko View Post
Well, in this particular situation I guess there is no need to debate the finer points of socialism. But, in the bigger picture of raising awareness of what is actually going on it might help to dispel of the many myths that surround the ideas of socialism.

As for our little debate, I guess what I was getting at was that I think it is important to expand on the generic term and put it in perspective.

The term "socialism" is used more as an ideological weapon by those in power, rather than portraying the true definition of socialism.

Hitler used the word socialism as a pretense to deceive the population - as did Lenin and Trotsky. Neither of these leaders ever came close to implementing the true definition of socialism. The socialist pretense served to legitimate their power and rule, allowing them to exploit the aura of socialist ideals and to conceal their own brutal practice as they destroyed the genuine meaning of socialism.

On the other side of the ideological perspective you have the US who also used the term as an ideological weapon to enforce conformity and obedience to the state-capitalist system. They said, "See, look at the ONLY other alternative system, the nasty totalitarian "socialist dungeons" of Russia. Now you see that there is no alternative."

Fast forward to NOW. Conservatives are using the word as an ideological weapon to scare the people into thinking that Obama and the Democrats are moving the US towards socialism. The majority of people immediately think of China or Russian socialism because they have been so indoctrinated that they aren't able to think critically about what is really going on. Within days we start hearing the little conservative sheeple repeat the word, ad naseum, because their talking heads said it was so.

And, I'm not really sure what is wrong with all the lib-tards and Obama-bots at this time. I guess your Vail parking talk is a good sign.

In reality, what is going on in the US right now doesn't even come close to socialism. Unless you consider "socializing losses while privatizing profits" and "bailing out the oligarchs at the expense of the taxpayer" a form of socialism then, ya, I guess the US is a socialist state... although I find that a pretty perverse definition of socialism. I would rather call it... getting ass raped while being told it is necessary. But, hey, at least Obama is a nice guy -unlike Bush- and puts his smooth-talkin-lube on before he shoves it in.
I like you Marko! Tell you what, I'll try not to use the word socialism and utilize your ass rape analogy. In all seriousness, I do think a more accurate definition is totalitarian. It might not be the version that we would associate with the word as we know it from history... but if the Pelosi's and the Reed's have their way, it won't be long before we will be asking to wipe our own asses. Cheryl Crow will be the toilet paper czar limiting the number of sheets you are allowed to use. It's just plain not American!

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Old 03-26-2009   #72
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Originally Posted by caspermike View Post
What do you still think of Obama, Rip and Mr. beaver?
Trust me on this one Casper, nothing these two can say will change my opinion of President Obama. With the cards he was dealt he is doing fine.

Really I like to do a little jousting with them as I imagine them down in their converted fallout shelters ready for the "Socialist Takeover"

Unlike them, I don't think you can judge a President based on a couple of months. It takes years and sometimes longer to determine the impact of their actions. Most of these yahoos were stocking the fallout shelter the night of the election they are completely convinced that Obama will "destroy America"

I mean I don't see one single thing W did right in 8 years, seems to me he blundered from one mistake to another......and heck we are still here.

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Old 03-26-2009   #73
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do you think obama would be incapable of "destroying america"?

what did W do wrong if he didn't do anything right? please expand. just because bush did wrong doesn't mean what obama is doing is right. or nessecary for that matter.
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Old 03-26-2009   #74
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Originally Posted by marko View Post

Just so you know... I don't like Obama. I never have and never will.

Believe it or not, I actually think Obama is implementing a certain type of socialism - National Socialism... better known as Fascism.
God I can't wait to wear an armband again!
What will it be this time to replace Keine Jueden!
Let me mull it over and get back to you.

I'm interested in founding a new paramilitary regiment. I'm partial to Kurt "Panzer" Meyer, so perhaps we call it the PanzerMeyer Bataillon. Maybe some of you are more partial to Uncle "Sepp" (Dietrich, of course).

(Panzermeyer above, from Kharkov)

I think Panzermeyer's pride in the face of war crimes trials and FALSE imprisonment and his heroic attack in 2nd Kharkov merit that we name the new force after him!

God I've waited a long time for National Socialism to regain popularity!

Remember, when you're in the ruling class, it's the absolute best form of government!
"self-aggrandizing jackass" - it says it right on the label
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Old 03-26-2009   #75
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LOL. Seriously funny shit.

OK, Heliodorus, I guess you'll be singing "Deutschland Uber Alles" while I belt out "L'Internationale".
Uh, I'm just gonna go find a cash machine.
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Old 03-26-2009   #76
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Originally Posted by Mr Beaver View Post
I mean I don't see one single thing W did right in 8 years, seems to me he blundered from one mistake to another......and heck we are still here.

I made this claim once and it was pointed out to me that Bush signed the "no call law". I guess I should have known that in 8 years there had to be ONE thing he did that I agreed with.
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Old 03-26-2009   #77
timbuktu, Colorado
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When Bush entered office in 2001, some felt he “stole” the election, and he inherited an economic recession much like President Obama. Bush’s answers were tax rebates in which the government handed out $600 checks. Sept. 11 didn’t help this, yet he kept the economy from falling too far. In 2003 he found the answer to boost our economy with his tax rate cuts which lowered dividend, income and capital gains tax rates. The results: 4.1 percent GDP growth and 32 percent increase in the S&P 500 in the following six quarters, as well as the creation of 5.3 million jobs in the following 13 quarters. He presided over the seven years of economic growth and declining unemployment rates from 2003 at 6 percent through 2007 at 4.6 percent. That economy seems irrelevant to the recession we face now caused by the mortgage crises. However, Bush made eight attempts to put regulations on banks handing out loans to people who couldn’t pay them back. Each time he was rejected by both a Republican Congress and a Democratic Congress.

Bush also saved lives around the world — 10 million to be specific. In 2003, he led the world in the fight against AIDS, committing $15 billion. His efforts didn’t stop there, as another $1.2 billion went to combat malaria. U.S. Development aid to Africa went from $1.3 to $5 billion. His vision of a healthier world didn’t just stop abroad — it was felt here at home too. His prescription drug initiative came under fire by both Republicans and Democrats, but ended up providing affordable access to prescription drugs for 43 million American seniors through Medicare.

Perhaps his greatest and most overlooked accomplishment was his effort in keeping America safe. After Sept. 11 it seemed inevitable that we would face another attack, but Bush took the right steps to prevent such a catastrophe. Many of the steps he took in protecting this country have even been embraced by President Obama, who is still unsure of what to do with the detainees at Guantanamo Bay. Despite the controversial decision to go into Iraq, he has freed millions of Iraqis from the harsh rule of Saddam Hussein and put democracy in the Middle East.

In regards to the environment, he created the two largest marine wildlife sanctuary's in the world.

To objectively look towards the future both the negatives and the positives need to be recognized.
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Old 03-26-2009   #78
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Not mine list, but for those of you curious.

Habeus corpus.
Detainee abuse.
Pre-emptive war.
The trade deficit.
The national debt.
The federal deficit.
Outing Valerie Plame.
Suppression of science.
The aftermath of Katrina.
Empowerment of enemies.
Creation of untold terrorists.
Alienation of traditional allies.
Subversion of the electoral process.
Perversion of the legislative process.
Overlooking system of checks and balances.
Undermining Constitutional separation of powers.
Allowing global warming to intensify at crucial time.
Refusing to fund stem cell research as millions suffer.
Enriching a small group of oil and petrochemical interests.
Appointing unqualified cronies in order to discredit governance.
Glibly estimating civilian deaths in Iraq at "30,000, give or take."
Signing statements that undermine laws even as they're signed into law.
Referring to the Iraq war and the death of our American soldiers as a "Comma."
"Not really thinking about" Bin Laden, the terrorist responsible for the 911 attacks.

And one I am still curious about, failure to solve the Anthrax case.
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Old 03-26-2009   #79
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MR beaver what is obama doing good?
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Old 03-26-2009   #80
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I like that he isn't shutting out the Republicans.

Funding of stem cell research.

Create 5 million "green" jobs

End the "Stop-Loss" program of forcing troops to stay in service beyond their expected commitments

Support high-speed rail

Obviously these are things he has actually done, not things just proposed or part of a campaign promises, that is why you have to wait some to see what will happen. I can suggest this website. PolitiFact | Sorting out the truth in politics

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