Originally Posted by Demosthenes
The big problem with the concept of trying to add a third party to a two part system is that voting for a third party just hurts the larger established party that you are most ideologically similar to. Because the two main parties are trying to get elected, they will try to stay as close to the center of the electorate's views as possible come general election time. Third parties will therefore, by definition cater to those on the extreme of either party. These parties then hurt the party they are most similar to. Ralph Nader in Florida in 2000 is really about the most perfect example of this possible. He was a liberal third party candidate who drew enough support from the Democrats to make them lose Florida.
Ruby Ridge wasn't about any infringement on civil liberties. It was about a member of the Aryan nation who sold illegal guns to an ATF informant, got caught, refused to go to court and then was involved in a shoot out with a U.S. Marshall. The fact that his wife got shot really is a direct result of him trying to shoot it out with a Marshall, period. As I've said before, when guns get involved, situations can quickly get out of control, he should have known that.
I am all for a third party because neither of the primary parties, i feel, represent me. Each party is too busy trying to drag the other through the mud to get anything accomplished. Democrats have control of our government, they should have a solidified health care bill passed, or at least framed. As it is even some Dem politicians are in the pockets of big insurance and pharma. I agree that Nader's campaign lost florida and gave the presidency to Bush. I truly feel that allowing the 2 party system to continue is contributing to the corruption problems that runs rampant in our government. I completely respect your opinion that people need to vote with who best is aligned with their views, in my case it is generally not republicans or democrats. Each has their strong and weak points. the repub's strong points are dwindling, and the dems haven't really been too strong either. I also think that Nader as an idealist that was quick to blame, but never really offered any real solutions. he ran on the "this sucks" ticket, but never offered a realistic alternative.
One option to stop out politicians from ruining our country is Public campaign fiance reform. No more donations from companies, no donations over a certain amount from individuals, and no campaign donation from out of the area, ie no donations from NY to CO candidates. Of course this will never work as no politician wants a level playing field when it comes to elections.
I am no fan of Weaver, but I think his situation was handled poorly. Between changed court dates, son being shot, and his wife being shot 2 days later through a wall as he was running away is scary. He NEVER even shot or looked to point a weapon when she was shot. He saw agents and began to run, they broke the 2nd rule of possessing a gun. "always know what is beyond your target". The 2 illegal guns were shotgun that were legal until they had their barrels cut off to less than 18 inches, there is skepticism whether he sold them altered or not. He also was painted as an Aryan nation member. He had Aryan acquaintances but it is unsure if he was a member. Remember Obama has weather underground contacts, but is not likely a terrorist..... If the government did indeed frame or manipulate facts against Weaver they can do it even easier now that both parties have enforced the patriot act and revocation of habeus corpus.....
Weaver also NEVER shot at agents, the only shots fired at agents were from his son who shot back after agents shot his dogs, then son Samuel was shot in the back retreating. These are facts from FBI and US Marshall's testimony.
Notes from FBI Deputy Assistant Director Danny Coulson
Something to Consider
1. Charge against Weaver is Bull Shit.
2. No one saw Weaver do any shooting.
3. Vicki has no charges against her.
4. Weaver's defense. He ran down the hill to see what dog was
barking at. Some guys in camys shot his dog.
Started shooting at him. Killed his son. Harris did the
shooting [of Degan]. He [Weaver] is in pretty strong legal position
Please read an objective account of Ruby Ridge and events leading up to it. It sure seems like Weaver was considered guilty before the botched attempt to arrest him.
BTW Palin sucks more now, she cant finish a 5k turkey trot.