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Old 04-06-2009   #11
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i apologizes for them? you meaning good ol chimney cheney. that conversation was more of a contreversial topic rather than a logical one defending my beleifs. whats you veiw on this one since you seem to never post anything of relevance.
RIP your head is so far up Obama's ass that you are about to come through his cardia.

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Old 04-06-2009   #12
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We'll have to rename Rip Lemmewinks then...

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Old 04-06-2009   #13
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i didn't say rip likes putting shit up his wahoo... you are F*cking awsome jen.
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Old 04-06-2009   #14
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hey lemmewinks(RIP) after reading markos thread about Obama and the current Administration of "experts" whats your opinion about the situation. keep trusting? if so why? you know something we are all missing. We, at least I want to hear your side for being a Obamamaniac
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Old 04-06-2009   #15
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Originally Posted by Jensjustduckie View Post
We'll have to rename Rip Lemmewinks then...
Nice reference to a hilarious South Park episode! Of course, Mikey's mistaken about me having intimate knowledge of the President's digestive tract. But I will give you credit, it was funny.

Mikey, you have an utterly schizoid "political philosophy" that has you defending the greedy while you talk about the "ogilarchy" (sic). It's a little tough to be an anarchist and a conservative apologist at the same time... and have a bit of credibility. But hey, credibility isn't really your thing. So I guess it's cool.
Uh, I'm just gonna go find a cash machine.
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Old 04-06-2009   #16
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I was defending everybodies rights which should have been obvious, not the ogliarchy. but i guess i was right you got Obama's shitter mapped out.
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Old 04-06-2009   #17
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Here is another Dean Baker article about the Geithner plan that came out today... and it happens to coincide with my last post.

The core problem is that many of our big banks are bankrupt. If they had to acknowledge the losses that they have incurred on their housing related loans (and increasing their loans in commercial real estate) Citigroup, Bank of America, and many other large banks would be insolvent. Thus far, they have avoided reality by keeping these loans on their books at inflated prices.
The Geithner plan is an effort to rescue the banks by using government funding to prop up the price of these bad loans to levels that will allow the banks to stay solvent. It is not clear that the plan is big enough to accomplish this goal, but that is the basic intention. If it doesn't work, then presumably Geithner will come out with another TARP permutation that involves giving the banks even more money.
Now here is something that MAKES SENSE!
Anyhow, the Geithner crew insists that there are no alternatives to his plan; we have to just keep giving hundreds of billions of dollars to the banks. Perhaps Geithner is right. But before we throw such huge sums away, further enriching the bankers who wrecked the economy, maybe we should get a second opinion.

Suppose that Congress appropriated a modest chunk of money to have independent economists put together teams to construct alternative plans. Why not give M.I.T. professor Simon Johnson, a former chief economist of the IMF, $5 million to hire a crew to outline his preferred path? Congress could give Joe Stiglitz, a Nobel Prize winner and one-time chief economist to President Clinton, who is also a harsh critic of the Geithner plan, a similar sum to put together his own team.

These economists could develop their best plans and put them out for public consumption. Geithner's crew can then tell us why their plans are unworkable and we must instead hand over the money to banks.
Given how much money Geithner wants to spend - putting it in the hands of the folks that brought on this economic crisis - it would seem appropriate to first examine all the alternatives. After all, we could find out what our options are in this case for the price of just a few A.I.G. executive bonuses. That has to be a good deal in anyone's book.
On a side note: CasperMike... I'm glad that you see some value in this post and some of what I write. But, don't use it to prove a point in your repeated attempts to prove RIP or Mr Beavers wrong. Try instead to use the information to better understand the situation.

I'm not posting this to change anybody's mind... because that is an impossible task. However, maybe -just maybe- the information will help other readers to come to their own conclusions and then maybe -just maybe- the new information will change their minds. That is the basis of my postings... to spread information and let the information speak for itself. I'm trying - very hard- to ignore the "gotcha" or "I'm right and you are wrong" banter that takes place on this forum. And, let me say that it ain't easy.

Yours truly,
Mark - the Anarchist-socialist
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Old 04-06-2009   #18
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My comment re "news" wasn't meant to diminish (although it kinda reads that way). Something need not be news to be worthy of discussion.

The newest Korten is incredibly focused and accessible, even if it might be a bit repetitive of his previous works. Definitely reads like a manifesto.

Most important, it takes to task anyone, including Obama, who fails to recognize that 5000 years of legalized theft/plundering of honest work won't be reversed/remedied by the finance capitalists and Wall Street experts who've never created anything of real value during their privileged, parasitic, pathetic existence.
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Old 04-06-2009   #19
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I am not an economist and I'm not even very good at math, but it seems to me that the "experts" are doing everything they can to "fix" the economy while ensuring that the pockets of the wealthy will still be lined. If they are experts and they want to fix the problem, why don't they create solutions that don't look exactly like what caused the problems in the first place?

For example (and feel free to point out the flaws), why doesn't the gov't take the bailout money, have Americans (people- me, you, your grandma, the guy down the street, a CEO) apply for stipends to pay off bills? Instead of handing out $600 or $900 to every Joe who is going to either stick it in a savings account or blow it in a day, have them apply to pay off a credit card, vehicle, 2nd mortgage, etc. Then the gov't fills out a check to the lien holder. Americans become more debt free, the lien holders get paid off, they pay the banks; the banks are making money again.

Everyone is in a position to rack up more debt, which is what we want, and the banks are back in a position to loan it to them. The problem with a solution like this is that it is the wrong direction for keeping the status quo of capitalism where they want it to be. It would look like socialism and that's scary. And it would look like evening the playing field and that's scary. And it would alleviate the people's self-established debtor's prison that keeps them in line, and that's scary.
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Old 04-06-2009   #20
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Watch this and see what you think........


you know sometimes i wish i would have chosen something like baseball but, i didn't and i'm a kayaker so this is what i do." -Nick Turner (Wehyakin)
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