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Old 12-24-2008   #41
The next zone, .
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,200
Yea no way someone could hide in the hills for years with only a AK and a mule......... The US military could easily find anyone quickly with our super tech gadgets... Wait someone needs to tell this to bin laden so he knows..

I grew up just like my father, grandfather, and great grandfather did - eatin elk and deer killed by guns and butchered in our house but you are right it is much better to get the shitty steroid beef from city market.....

I also agree with wifey that folks who are afraid of guns (people like wifey) dont need and should not own guns... This unfounded "fear" when combined with a uneducated person = someone who has no place behind a trigger. Also if you ever have a rapeist in your house I am sure you can just "talk him out of it".. Happened to a friend a couple of years back in Glenwood of all places. Dude with a knife choose to jump out of a 2nd story window when he in the dark herd the snap of a .380 load.

I also feel that it is your choice not to have a gun in your house and I dont see why you would not instead of ending gun ownership - push legislation to post this fact! At this point no one could get rid of all the guns and you / your neighbors would benifit from knowing who lives in the safest gun free houses and could easily avoid less safe gun owner houses... This would open up some doors to criminals as they may see it as a weakness but it would allow wifey to sit down and reason with any less than desirable fellows and i guess live the life you preach..

Funny that here in chaffee county you would have to go back to almost the 1900's before you would have 10 gun murders... That many people died on the ark in the past 3 years!!! Wifey truth is you chances are way better of gettin killed on the ark than your chance of gettin shot. So better stay off them damn killer rivers.. Or heavily regulate who can run them..

Guns are goin no where and if you choose not to own one fine. That is your choice but I will never see why some people think they hold so much more knowledge that they feel compeled to tell and regulate how the rest of live... Just not my thing...

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Old 12-24-2008   #42
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Unincorporated Douglas County, Colorado
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I'm not saying people shouldn't have guns, but if you do, this is just a holiday reminder. Keep them in a safe place when not in use.

Officials: Boy, 11, kills cousin, 10, in Fla. - Crime & courts-

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Old 12-24-2008   #43
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Durango, Colorado
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Originally Posted by rwhyman View Post
I'm not saying people shouldn't have guns, but if you do, this is just a holiday reminder. Keep them in a safe place when not in use.

Officials: Boy, 11, kills cousin, 10, in Fla. - Crime & courts-
Wise words, rwhyman.

Sadly, the gun issue has become polarized into the pros who will accept no limitations on gun ownership and the antis who see no reason to own guns. As is always the case, the truth lies in the middle of these extremes.
You can never step into the same river; for new waters are always flowing on to you. - Heraclitus of Ephesus
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Old 12-24-2008   #44
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Originally Posted by DurangoSteve View Post
That's a gross oversimplification. Legalized abortion changed the demographics of America? How about people choosing not to marry, married people choosing not to reproduce (contraception, not abortion) and a host of other societal changes?

Tying the drop in violent crime to the legalization of abortion is woefully incomplete at best.

Very incomplete. Many factors go into it...likely including the ones you mentioned. I do not claim to have the answers on that one. Just poking holes in the "broken window" theory. You should read freakonomics for more on this idea. To be fair I think Steven Levitt (Freakonomics author) falls short of poving his thesis on abortion, but does clearly demonstrate the "broken window" effect is often overstated by its supporters.
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Old 12-24-2008   #45
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Originally Posted by boatmusher View Post
I even need to directly bring up gorilla warfare?
Good post but I think you mean guerrilla.
"Let us cross the river to the other side and rest beneath the shade of the trees." ~ Last words of Thomas Jonathan ''Stonewall' Jackson
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Old 12-24-2008   #46
Down by the River, Idaho
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Originally Posted by Theophilus View Post
Good post but I think you mean guerrilla.

Thanks! I wrote that late last night... Sorry about the spelling.

Durangosteve, I agree with moderate gun laws. I don't want them in the hands of crazies any more than you do. The only difference is that when a crazy gets one in his hands... I want one in mine!
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Old 12-24-2008   #47
Durango, Colorado
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I understand all of your points about Guerilla warfare in Vietnam and Iraq. I was actually waiting for somebody to bring it up. You do however miss one important fact about these conflicts. The United States, i.e. the defeated party, had to play by a certain set of rules, at least for the majority of the time. In any government that you do fear, which is technologically equipped, do you think they'd play by these rules? Consider the example of Latin America during the 70s and 80s. The population of almost every country was well armed, but the government operated well outside of the rules. In Chile and Argentina, the military governments simply kidnapped people from their homes at night and they were never seen again (they were thrown out of helicopters over the ocean). Generally the axiom about Guerilla warfare is that it is effective until the government is willing to inflict significant damage on the civilian populations that support the guerillas. You should all read about the United States in the Phillipines during the late 1800s and early 1900s. This is a prime example (often cited by Army experts in trying to defeat the insurgency) of how to defeat a guerilla war. Guerilla warfare would be effective against the current government in the United States, with constitutional guarantees, but against a government like Saddam Hussein's? Consider the example of the Marsh Arabs. Some of them fought against Saddam with particular tenacity from their traditional homes in the marshes of Iraq. To combat this, Saddam simply drained the marshes and slaughtered them. Same thing happened with the Kurds before the no-fly zone. For this reason, the concept of protection for liberty remains less than convincing.

About the selective service point. Do you really expect to be drafted anytime? Look at the reluctance of politicians to draft citizens for the Iraq war. They instead hired Mercenaries from over 20 different countries (I'm going to post about that entire outrageous issue later). Even though the majority of army recruits come from lower-income groups that continually get shafted by the government, without any significant protest, congressmen and the president remained highly reluctant to institute a draft. I'm also registered for a selective service job. Why? I'd certainly like to be eligible for social security and medicare at some point. Registering for selective service in today's day and age is largely self-serving. I don't object to this, but believe that the social obligation piece should be largely more substantial.

About the assault weapon's ban? Does anybody disagree with me that this ban is not a completely valid idea? While I understand that you would all like an assault weapon, wouldn't you really like to keep a weapon out of the hands of some person who has gone postal? If I had a machine-gun, I certainly wouldn't walk around with it in public. Even if I was some extreme self-defense enthusiast, I wouldn't (according to laws they have in all states I believe) be able to carry one around in a shopping mall for example. The only person who would carry one around would be somebody looking to kill.
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Old 12-24-2008   #48
timbuktu, Colorado
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My brother and I just took delivery of two matching Sig556's, they make for a great coyote gun. Probably can't say I agree with you on the assault rifle ban. I'm not under the illusion that I'm going to fight off a rogue US military or government. I am more concerned that in the event of a complete societal collapse, I have the capability of defending my family from all the hungry bastards that didn't think it would or could ever happen. Just a good idea to keep your options open. Most folks never thought the current financial crisis could have ever happened. I believe just about anything can happen and would much prefer to be prepared.
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Old 12-24-2008   #49
Down by the River, Idaho
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You bring up points of South America. They are somewhat valid points for South America.... However, we live in the United States. We have enough of a "well regulated militia" to where a few people start disappearing and our media would scream bloody murder and the rest of us would put up a fight. I think you are forgetting about how our country was founded. We threw out the most powerful military might the world had seen up to that point. Just a bunch of colonials with a few muskets kicked out the mighty British. So I don't think you can relate other governments to what is America. You are comparing apples to oranges. Our country has a history of self reliance and the ability to stand up to tyranny. As yarmonymatoid referenced, when the proverbial shit hits the fan, in one manner or the other, there will be people that are prepared and then there are the blue state, metro-sexual, urban dwelling pansy liberals, that have become fat and lazy and expect to be taken care of. Those people as well as our government are the ones I keep my eye on. I'm proud to be a self reliant American that believes in my American rights.

Whether I expect to be drafted is irrelevant. The constitution doesn't say your freedoms are protected only if.... They guarantee them regardless. My point was simply to shut up the bleeding heart liberals that think our constitution is outdated. I'm all for a policy similar to Switzerland's. Did you know that Switzerland was the only country not taken by Hitler in continental Europe during WW2? Why? B/c every man had a rifle in his home and he was prepared to die to protect his country. Their motto was simply "to the last man." Hitler did not want anything to do with that mentality. I think I can speak for many of us "gun owners" when I say that if someone was to come walking down my street with the intent to do me harm I too would protect my home, family, country, and loved ones.

Assault weapons? We already have laws not allowing criminals to possess them. What more do we need? Why should the law abiding citizen be penalized by criminals? I think we have enough gun laws that already make it illegal for criminals to possess them w/out further hurting the constitutional rights that our Founding Fathers guaranteed. The government, as you already stated, has weapons far superior to the assault rifle. So why should we take a step back in protecting our freedoms? You yourself said we are already outgunned. Therefore, we need assault rifles more than ever. Your argument about keeping them out of the hand of "some person who has gone postal" is invalid. We already have those laws in effect. I highly encourage you to educate yourself as to what laws we already have. In fact, I'd suggest going to a gun store and looking at the applicaton process to purchase a firearm. Education is important in arguing gun control. IT IS ILLEGAL FOR A CRIMINAL TO POSSESS, PURCHASE, OR OWN A FIREARM! Addingh more laws is useless b/c they are already in place.

The more corrupt a society, the more numerous its laws. -Ed Abbey
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Old 12-24-2008   #50
timbuktu, Colorado
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boatmusher, you know anything about the economy? If you have half as much sense about that issue, as you do gun control and haven't broken to many laws... you might just be a good candidate for an office of some kind. You have my vote. And since were quoting Abbey...

"The tank, the B-52, the fighter-bomber, the state-controlled police and military are the weapons of dictatorship. The rifle is the weapon of democracy. Not for nothing was the revolver called an "equalizer." Egalite implies liberte. And always will. Let us hope our weapons are never needed--but do not forget what the common people of this nation knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny." Abbey's Road

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