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If Hillary would win the nomination with backroom deals with the superdelagates, I would be really disappointed. She would have to get nominated legitimately for her to receive my vote.
Let's hope it doesn't come to that.
But either way, I will not vote for McCain.
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Originally Posted by heliodorus04
But bear this in mind on the Democrat side: Hillary cannot overtake Obama on state (pledged) delegates. She has to rely on backroom deals and a brokered convention to get the election. If she manages to eek out the popular vote (nationwide) she has a legitimate moral claim, I think. But if she has neither the delegate lead (prior to superdelegates) nor the popular vote, and she chooses to divide her party in the hopes that she can negotiate deals and cast aside both of those votes, (which I predict she definitely would do even without winning the popular vote) then she's demonstrating that she's every bit as craven as Bush.
This is what I want people to see about Clinton: (quote from andrewsullivan.com)
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I see no reason why this race shouldn't continue, and that it shouldn't continue all the way. As a journalist, this is good news. It's certainly great copy, as they say on Fleet Street. But I see no way that the Clintons can actually win it without re-opening Michigan and Florida, and shifting the super-delegates by super-human amounts. The result will probably be a slow, Limbaugh-friendly trashing of Obama - because Clinton has only gained traction by attacking him, or raising fears about him, rather than by a positive campaign for herself.
But the show must go on, because the Clintons' egos demand it, and because as long as Obama has not crossed the magic line definitively, the destiny of the Clintons to run America for sixteen years must always be pursued. Ask Sid Blumenthal why. It's also vital for the Clintons psychologically to undermine Obama's appeal. He represents a systematic rebuke of their style of politics, their tactics and their worldview. If they can manage to damage him enough, even if he wins the nomination, their own sense of their own historical importance will be assuaged. Maybe they can damage him enough to ensure that McCain beats him in the fall. That would, at some level, satisfy them. To be beaten in a Democratic primary is bad enough; but if their opponent goes on to win the presidency, it would be unbearable for them, close to an indictment. That is what is fueling them: the terror of an Obama presidency and history re-written with Clinton as a minor footnote in the minor 1990s.
I'm not voting for someone who plays by the same playbook as Karl Rove. End of story. I'll cast a vote for someone, maybe McCain, maybe Ron Paul. Maybe Ralph Nader, who the hell knows, but I will not vote for Josefine Stalin.
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The real problem fundamentalists have with the theory of evolution is that it wasn't written on a sheepskin in the Bronze Age. Evolution is something science can't explain to willfully irrational people.
I'll make wagers on that point. If Hillary is the nominee of the Democrats, the election is McCain's to lose, in my view.
You haven't seen what Dobson has already said about McCain. Dobson fully endorsed Romney, once he got an 'admission' from Romney that Mormonism is not a Christian religion...
McCain is the anti-zealot. McCain has two main problems within the Republican sphere: he's not kowtowed to the religious right, and has picked fights with them in the last 8 years. Indeed, in 2000 when he was leading George Bush for the nomination after winning New Hampshire, it was the religious right in South Carolina that sunk him. McCain is not a forgiving sort of man, and he's held a grudge against the religious right ever since...
His other "problem" is that he's not towing the party line on several other issues. There's a good article about his enivornmentalism in The New Republic today (qualified that some of his energy policy may be based more in anti-pork politics than in pro-environmental politics, but still). He's a realist on immigration. I have to look up his specific voting record on abortion rights, but from memory, he's pro-life but not a zealot (which to me means he won't make overturning Roe v Wade a hallmark of his Supreme Court picks).
He's fiscally more responsible than Bush and has already spoken of a scenarios in which he could see himself raising taxes (on the wealthy, specifically). He's not a Neocon, and never was a true Neocon.
Take note that zealous Republicans are against him. The Rush Limbaughs and Sean Hannity's of the world are saying they'd rather vote for Hillary than McCain...
As a registered Republican, McCain is the second best choice the Republicans could have picked (Ron Paul being the first, but he was never going to get nominated). McCain has the strongest appeal to independents of the Republicans. He's sane...
I will watch carefully to see if he 1) Says anything about the desire to have abortions made illegal at the Federal level. 2) Pass an amendment to the Constitution to restrict homosexual marriage/civil unions.
If he does either of those, he'll lose any possible support I might give him. I'm also eager to see him unequivocally denounce torture and the euphemisms that go along with it by any US agency or allied bodies.
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The real problem fundamentalists have with the theory of evolution is that it wasn't written on a sheepskin in the Bronze Age. Evolution is something science can't explain to willfully irrational people.
Well, assuming that plays out the way gh thinks, no way McCain will have my support. It was god himself who forced me out of the Republican party (that's a pun, I hope).
The article doesn't convince me McCain is kowtowing to Dobson, but if Dobson does come out and support McCain, I will simply assume backroom conversations were promised to the "Christian Taliban" and I'll be done with that.
Doubt I could vote for Hillary, but I could write in someone...
Damn that exasperates me. You can't believe in anyone anymore... I hope my faith in Obama isn't as misfounded as it seems to be going with McCain. He already caved on torture... Fuck
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The real problem fundamentalists have with the theory of evolution is that it wasn't written on a sheepskin in the Bronze Age. Evolution is something science can't explain to willfully irrational people.
I just came across this quote from a blog post, and it concerns Hillary saying she'd consider Obama for her VP...:
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Clearly that's a strategic campaign move for her, and is in no way a part of her oft-hidden gracious nature. If she can convince enough people that it's a strong possibility for her to choose Obama as VP, she can stem the flow of on-the-fencers and cause them to lean her way. Because with her, they get a chance at having it both ways! And that's a guiltless, easy win-win choice for an undecided voter to make.
An interesting observation. It may indeed be that "brilliant campaign move" that moves voters to her. I wonder how the popular vote will shake out.
I saw today that discounting Michigan and Florida, Obama has the popular vote by ~300,000 (three hundred thousand). Count in Michigan and Florida, and Obama's popular vote drops 100-fold, to only 3,000. (that's three thousand).
For those of you not familiar with political history, nothing like this in a primary election has happend since I think 1954...
Obama will have to hurt her somehow, because she has hurt him this week. Obama has to win both delegates and popular vote, or the Clintons don't go away...
A very "wow" moment right now in the Democrat primary...
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The real problem fundamentalists have with the theory of evolution is that it wasn't written on a sheepskin in the Bronze Age. Evolution is something science can't explain to willfully irrational people.
yeah, while I would still vote for her if nominated[no more right wing judges,no way] i have lost respect for her in this campaign.The more I read the more disillusioned/disappointed i am in the dems,plenty o' dirt,but it still pales in comparison to the GOP.I used to think that on a scale of one to ten of corruption the dems were about a 5 or 6 and the republicans 8 or 9 ,my revised estimate dems 8 1/2, repugnacans 27.
Noone argued about the rigging of elections,was expecting an arguement.Does that mean you acknowledge it,or thought it was too bogus to reply? I am serious,they have to rig it again to win this time the key states to watch are ones with ;large Hispanic districts,Republican secretaries of state,that require ID cards this elections silver bullet to disenfranchise Hispanic voters.Talk about racism the methods used in the last 2 general eletions and the 2006 midterm amount to reinstating Jim'Jeb' Crow,any dirty trick to screw blacks[including Iraq vets],native Americans,and hispanics,although it was more about heavily democratic demographic districts than overt racism ,it still played out that way.
Immigration will be the main wedge issue to rally angry white conservatives.
tHE DEMS BETTER GET THE SUPERDELEGATE SITUATION RESOLVED FAIRLY ,OR THEY GIVE THE Reps ammo,even though comparing that disenfranchisement to what the Rep's have done is absurd,but most people think calling the elections rigged is just sour grapes/sore losers or some conspiracy theory,despite ample evidence and internationally widespread acceptance,just bury your head in the sand why don't we.
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