Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-25-2008   #41
Roy's Avatar
Denver, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1993
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 682
Originally Posted by Snowhere View Post
Basing voting off a sci-fi book has to be just a little nutty.
Especially a sci-fi book about a quasi-fascist "utopia". Not my ideal. No matter how hot Denise Richards looks in fatigues!

And when you start talking about how society needs to decide who qualifies for "the right to breed" before it gets any better, you're talking about A Brave New World that I don't want any part of...

Is that where today's "small government conservatism" is headed?

Roy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2008   #42
Self-Aggrandizing jackass
heliodorus04's Avatar
The Ranch, Colorado
Paddling Since: 04
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 1,134
Don't get me wrong, I'm not looking for a candidate who espouses such things, I'm just saying I think they're good ideas. They're fantasies of mine, like the notion that Nicole Kidman could be pursuaded to blow me or that I could run Vellicito... Abstracts I don't think can ever be applied to the real world.

"self-aggrandizing jackass" - it says it right on the label
heliodorus04 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2008   #43
rwhyman's Avatar
Unincorporated Douglas County, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2005
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 961
I got this sent to me yesterday.
If these statements are true, my take would be that the Democrats were just trying to find ways to balance the budget, while the Repubs were preaching tax cuts, making money and spending like crazy as the Fed. deficit goes into the trillions, saying "to hell with the future" for the next generation.
Since some of you folks study this stuff much more than I do, I'd like to hear what you think.

Your Social Security

Just in case some of you young whippersnappers (& some older ones) didn't know this. It's easy to check out, if you don't believe it. Be sure and show it to your kids. They need a little history lesson on what's what . And it doesn't matter whether you are Democrat of Republican. Facts are facts!!!

Our Social Security

Franklin Roosevelt, a Democrat, introduced the Social
Security (FICA) Program. He promised:

1.) That participation in the Program would be
completely voluntary.

2.) That the participants would only have to pay
1% of the first $1,400 of their annual
incomes into the Program,

3.) That the money the participants elected to put
into the Program would be deductible from
their income for tax purposes each year,

4.) That the money the participants put into the
Independent "Trust Fund" rather than into the
General Operating Fund, and therefore, would
only be used to fund the Social Security
Retirement Program, and no other
government program, and,

5.) That the annuity payments to the retirees
would never be taxed as income.
Since many of us have paid into FICA for years and are
now receiving a Social Security check every month --
and then finding that we are getting taxed on 85% of
the money we paid to the federal government to "put
away", you may be interested in the following:


Q: Which political party took Social Security from the
Independent "Trust Fund" and put it into the
General Fund so that Congress could spend it?

A: It was Lyndon Johnson and the democratically-
controlled House and Senate.


Q: Which political party eliminated the income tax
deduction for Social Security (FICA) withholding?

A: The Democratic Party.


Q: Which political party started taxing Social
Security annuities?

A: The Democratic Party, with Al Gore casting the
"tie-breaking" deciding vote as President of the
Senate, while he was Vice President of the U.S.


Q: Which political party decided to start giving
annuity payments to immigrants?


A: That's right!
Jimmy Carterand the Democratic Party.
Immigrants moved into this country, and at age 65,
they began to receive Social Security payments! The
Democratic Party gave these payments to them
even though they never paid a dime into it!


Then, after violating the original contract (FICA), the Democrats turn around and tell you that the Republicans want to take your Social Security away!

And the worst part about it is uninformed citizens believe it!

If enough people receive this, maybe a seed of
awareness will be planted and maybe changes will
evolve. Maybe not, some Democrats are awfully
sure of what isn't so.

But it's worth a try. How many people can
YOU send this to?

Actions speak louder than bumper stickers.

A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have.
-Thomas Jefferson

rwhyman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2008   #44
pnw, Washington
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,404
Neither party is perfect. This isnt black and white and the republican party has done some good things in the past. I dont think you can vote for a party. I think you have to pick a man or woman that most closely matches your ideals and you hope will do a decent job of running the country. At this point I will take my chances with the democratic party.
I just look at my social security payments as helping my mom and family cause I know I will never see a dime in return.
"Yesterday I was clever and tried to change the world. Today I am wise and try to change myself." -Rumi
gh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2008   #45
Self-Aggrandizing jackass
heliodorus04's Avatar
The Ranch, Colorado
Paddling Since: 04
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 1,134
I can't speak (without doing research) to what FDR said would and wouldn't happen to the money put into social security. My memory serves me that yes, it was not supposed to be taxed. But I don't think the final version of its enactment was ever said to be "voluntary."

One of the huge mistakes this country made with regard to the Social Security program was in the 60s, when the Johnson administration, with approval from Congress, started adding the Social Security 'surplus' to the figures for the general budget to spend as they saw fit.

Yes, that was the Johnson administration, but as I like to point out, Congress voted for it. So you can't go saying "Democrats suck" like this article does. It's not as simple as all that.

By the same token, when the Johnson administration did that, no one could then in Congress or any house of government could have envisioned budget deficits of the kind we now see. Back then, the future impact of baby-boomers on Social Security weren't thought of (they should have been). Had the surpluses from the 60s been invested into the Social Security system in isolation, we would have another couple of decades at least to remedy the Social Security problem. We might have avoided it altogether.

As for taxing Social Security income and means testing, well, blame budget deficits, not parties. Blaming parties doesn't do any good in the long run, particularly when, as many of us lament, both sides of the party aisle are pretty corrupted by kickbacks to special interests.

The only way to stop the budgetary bleeding in this country is for Congress to stop voting for egregiously out of balance budgets, or for the President (whoever that may be) to consistently veto them. I think the line-item veto would be a great power for a responsible president, but it absolutely will require a Constitutional amendment.

Getting back to taxation of Social Security and means testing, this is part of the problem created by what was done in the 60s (and of deficit spending in the late 80s and, most of the blame has to fall squarely on the last 8 years of Bush 2 for deficit spending). We didn't stockpile those surplusses when the boomers were paying in, and a small, senior population was taking out. Now we have the boomers taking out, and a smaller population of workers paying in.

As for immigrants receiving SS, I don't know about that. I'm skeptical of that claim. It seems like some sort of exaggeration, if not outright lie, to make the "bleedin heart Democrats who want illegals to be able to vote" out to be villains.

To get back to Heinlein:
Your enemy is never a villain in his own eyes. Keep this in mind.

Remember that we're all motivated by a sense of idealism that makes us believe our own philosophies are magnanimous, and we have a rationale for them we can explain.
"self-aggrandizing jackass" - it says it right on the label
heliodorus04 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2008   #46
Livingston's Avatar
Denver, Colorado
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 679


I have not read Starship Troopers (seen the movie though). I would be a little embarrassed to list how much sci-fi I have and do read. The two books I did read by Heinlien were Stranger in a Strange Land and The Moon is a Harsh Mistress. If you had read those, perhaps you would be a hippy or a Libertarian. Good thing you didn't pick up any L. Ron Hubbard. Then you'd be really f'cked (I Loved Battlefield Earth [the book and movie] which probably does make me weird).

I agree with much of what you write Helio, and actually enjoy reading most of it, but the voting thing really offends me. Again, do you really think it is just a coincidence that your criteria for voting matches exactly your resume? In a lot of cases, that attitude is called arrogance/conceit/hubris...

What would we really need all of those soldiers for anyway? We aren't fighting an alien bug invasion! The terrorists are just criminals, a police problem, not a problem for a massive army. I'm sure the Military Industrial Complex could find an enemy for us if they had to... our economy would depend on it. Dumb, dumb idea man. Think it through.

"I think I handled my alcohol pretty well considering how drunk I was." -Cousin Dan
Livingston is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2008   #47
Self-Aggrandizing jackass
heliodorus04's Avatar
The Ranch, Colorado
Paddling Since: 04
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 1,134
Originally Posted by Livingston View Post
What would we really need all of those soldiers for anyway? We aren't fighting an alien bug invasion!
Not yet, we're not!
But they're coming, I've seen em.

Most people who know me personally mistake me for a hippy libertarian. I'm a federalist, which I describe as "a libertarian who lives in the real world" (by which I mean that most people are never going to take full responsibility for their own lives.)

I used to be a hippy. You should read my columns when I ran the UTEP newspaper. I'm still a bit of a hippy. I'm only "right wing" in the area of trying to keep government small, small, small, and advocating the right to own any weapon for personal defense that I can get my hands on. Socially, I'm almost completely a leftist. But that goes along with Federalism - keeping the government out of people's lives as much as possible.
"self-aggrandizing jackass" - it says it right on the label
heliodorus04 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2008   #48
Denver, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1995
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,239
it's all a moot point if we don't get a papertrail,2000 and 2004 were practice and refinement for rigging 2008,we should demand international election monitors like we do for other countries instead of this 'it can't happen here '' mentality,it already did,and very little has been done to correct it the clock is ticking.If it is close wer'e fucked!!!

I GET REAL TIRED OF THIS HOLIER THAN THOU STUFF FROM VETS!!Thier willingness to serve and sacrifice is inherently honorable,but the causes they are used for usually are not.Once you are in theatre you do what you have to to survive and cover your buddies back out of necessity and loyalty.All promises to vets should be honored.But,maybe they should muster the courage to stand up for what is right and conscientiously object upfront when appropriate.Anyone who doesn't think Iraq is primarily about OIL is a fool,it is about controlling the price and OPEC/OIL COMPANIES revenue stream not stealing the oil[ even I support our action in Afghanistan].The record profits,without performing ANY additional services,speaks for itself,that,war profiteering is what is treasonous, not exercising your right to speak out.
What gave us the moral high ground in the first place was that we had higher standards of humanity than the enemy,sometimes eg WW2,[ tell that to the indians or Mexico though].

A NON VET HAS EVERY RIGHT TO SPEAK UP,and as a dirty socialist/populist I AM NOT in the least bit afraid to go toe to toe with you MV HYDE OR i hate Boulder!!!!!
cayo 2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2008   #49
Denver, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1995
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,239
Who is braver the Palestinian kid throwing rocks or the Israeli in a multi million dollar tank with satellite intelligence feed? The marines are/were badasses in Fallujah door to door though,its the war hawk politicians who are the cowards,eg Bush,Cheney.Didn't we use 'terrorist/guerilla tactics' when confronted with a superiorly[sic] trained and armed Brittish military,what are poor people supposed to do line up like the redcoats of the 1700's to be slaughtered?Havn't the powers learned that it is futility and a cost benefits deficit to try and control a desperate populous,unless you are willing to engage in a wholesale massacre /indiscriminately bombing,and doesn't that make us the bad guys?[not to mention ensure future backlash like terrorism]
cayo 2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2008   #50
Self-Aggrandizing jackass
heliodorus04's Avatar
The Ranch, Colorado
Paddling Since: 04
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 1,134
This just made me laugh and laugh...

This is a new sticker being floated by certain Republicans (I have no idea who):


"self-aggrandizing jackass" - it says it right on the label
heliodorus04 is offline   Reply With Quote

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

Similar Threads
Topic Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
The first step in Election 2008 heliodorus04 The Eddy 157 02-04-2008 11:38 AM
Are low gas prices before the election a coincidence? cstork The Eddy 11 10-31-2006 03:39 PM
Eagle River Water District Board Election WhiteLightning Whitewater Kayaking 5 05-01-2006 06:58 PM
Election Day Poll wycoloboater Whitewater Kayaking 0 09-21-2004 11:45 AM

» Classified Ads
Patagonia Guidewater and...

posted by clemkins

Two patagonia drybags, one is the guidewater II 50L, the...


posted by Rendezvous River Sports


Aire Wildcat

posted by jakeller449

13' Aire Wildcat. Includes cascade outfitters frame and...

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

Our Communities

Our communities encompass many different hobbies and interests, but each one is built on friendly, intelligent membership.

» More about our Communities

Automotive Communities

Our Automotive communities encompass many different makes and models. From U.S. domestics to European Saloons.

» More about our Automotive Communities

Marine Communities

Our Marine websites focus on Cruising and Sailing Vessels, including forums and the largest cruising Wiki project on the web today.

» More about our Marine Communities

Copyright 2002-2012 Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:04 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.