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Politics sucks, as do politicians, and lawyers (liars)
None of the candidates are worth a bucket full of crap. Bush2 screwed up with the choices he made (Iraq was a good idea gone bad, but then who here is qualified to armchair QB a war?). Hillary "Thunder Thighs" Clinton is more of the same shame the Democrats brought upon themselves. If she gets elected, will Billy boy get another shot at some fat interns? She's a communist in disguise, check her voting record and views.
Obama has a really bad record from his state legislature days as a do-nothing politician and is absolutely NOT qualified for the job. Rhetoric is exactly that, rhetoric, words. Actions speak way louder, check his record.
Huckabee? What a jackass. The only one that was worse was Romney. Pious Mormons need not apply. They're a bunch of laughable idiots.
McCain? I respect his service to our country. I really do. But.... he's a bit too old for the job.
Now, let's get to the silly voters in all this. One thing I have noticed is there are a lot of people on the Buzz who have never served in the military. Yet they talk all this shit about war, a subject they know nothing of. Until you have been shot at, done the shooting, had the stress, had your mind so screwed with you know neither what day it is or time it is, you really shouldn't express other than you dislike it from the perspective that you'd never participate.
I have seen a lot of opinions about how we're only there to steal the oil, etc. Having served in the first conflict, I can tell you it was not about the oil, the oil was a secondary issue. Too many people here have had it far too easy for too long. The rest of the world is not flush toilets and hot running clean water. Our government as a rule and practice does not go around killing off people at random for no reason. So what if they torture a few terrorists? Big freaking deal. Waterboarding? We've been doing that since the Korean War. It pales by comparison to what our enemies have done to us. At least waterboarding does not do permement physical damage. I want you bleeding heart socialist types to think about what it must be like to be stripped naked, hung upside down with chains, have a cattle prod shoved up your butt, and get the bottom of your feet beaten with iron pipes for hours on end. That is what some of our enemies have done to us. Yet... the liberal socialists in this country would have us believe we just need to be nicer to these people, say nice words to them, and give them money and it will all go away. tell it to the guys who served on the USS Pueblo. Ask them what North Korean prisons are like.
The biggest lesson of history is to not forget and not repeat it. Iraq is not Vietnam. It is not a war ran by the numbers. It is a war of modernism -vs- the stale and secular. If you think Islam is a religion of peace, think again. It surely is not, just as Christianity was not way back when. The difference is that Christianity matured, and Islam has not. It is still rooted in its medieval laws of Shar'i.
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And the Lord said, let there be whitewater. So on Friday, the 13th day of the month....
No, he's saying if you haven't served in the military, you don't have the right to criticize a war (I think).
I'm the one saying if you haven't been in the military, you shouldn't have the right to vote. But I make exceptions for other types of non-military public service.
Anyhow, so Hyde knows where I'm coming from:
My MOS was 19K10, M1A1 tank crewman. I did 2 years in 3rd Squadron, 11th Armored Cavalry (K-Troop), in the Fulda Gap, West Germany. Then I did my other two years with 3rd Squadron, 3rd Armored Cavalry (M Company, the tank company) in El Paso, Texas, and during that tour was deployed for Desert Shield/Storm from October 1990 to April 1991. I ETS'd an E4(p), honorably. I've got the DD214 if the above credentials aren't sufficient for you.
I was no REMF...
The torture policy advanced by Cheney/Rumsfield with the passive/tacit approval of Bush is the shame of our military's lifetime. It is not preventing any loss of life, and is perhaps costing them. It is also undermining US diplomatic power by making us the equivalent of Cuba, North Korea, and so on.
Research from World War 2 on proves that torture produces less reliable intelligence, and more unreliable intelligence, then other humane means of interrogation. In point of fact, handing over intelligence gathering services to goons and thugs who get woodies at the thought of breaking men's thumbs leads to a vacuum of actual intelligence gathering specialists. Anyone can break thumbs. It takes men of intelligence and discretion to administer humane treatment of prisoners. We've been losing out on the latter in favor of the former for years now.
We're handing our enemies the perfect propoganda to paint us as the evil they already believe we are.
I don't care that the terrorists don't bestow the Geneva Convention rights to others. They never signed it. We did. And contrary to popular belief, signatores to the Geneva Convention aren't just to give those rights to others who signed the accords, they are to give them to anyone we capture on the field of battle.
I will not let my government keep nameless people imprisoned without charge, indefinitely, in the name of my own protection.
Those who would sacrifice their liberty for security deserve neither (I think that was Ben Franklin, but I'm not sure)
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The real problem fundamentalists have with the theory of evolution is that it wasn't written on a sheepskin in the Bronze Age. Evolution is something science can't explain to willfully irrational people.
Almost had it, gh. If you'd seen it in a theater, you'd be in.
No soup for you! You only get to pay taxes.
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The real problem fundamentalists have with the theory of evolution is that it wasn't written on a sheepskin in the Bronze Age. Evolution is something science can't explain to willfully irrational people.
Once again, Heliodorus makes some excellent points.
Here's an article from a former Military Interrogator: Maj. Anthony Milavic: The US Military and Torture [His credentials: Maj. Anthony Milavic's 25-year Marine career included service as: an instructor in Communist Interrogation, Indoctrination, and Exploitation of Prisoners of War; a tactical interrogator in Vietnam and a strategic interrogator; the principal intelligence officer of a Marine squadron, regiment, and division equivalent in combat; and, a DIA briefer for the CJCS/SECDEF.]
mvhyde- For the sake of argument, let's assume that torture was 100% effective and 100% accurate. If your rationale is that we can't "be nice to them and make them go away"; by the same token you're not going to be able to torture enough of the 2.5 Billion Muslims worldwide to keep all of them from deciding to stand with extremists instead of remaining moderate muslims. Yes, I know you don't believe there are any moderate Muslims. You've stated time and time again that all Muslims want to kill us. That's sad, because there are entire countries and regions that are moderate, whose view of the US has suffered.
I don't agree that only veterans have a right to criticize or comment on wars fought in the name of America, or for American interests. Your voice is no more important than mine, according to the Constitution. And if someone is going to be killed in my name & with my tax dollars, then I will damn sure have an opinion about it- sometimes it's justified, but oftentimes it's not. Now I would support mandatory military service for all americans - even ones that have pilonidal cysts. I think we'd have a lot more debate and /or forethought about when military action is warranted.
Any political candidate observation you make that refers to the size of someone's thighs inherently belongs in the 8th Grade. Seriously.
Uh- we're all Socialists. Even you, if you've ever driven a public road, attended a public school, or had clean running water (as you mentioned, ironically). There is no pure Capitalist society, just shades of socialism. I know that "Bleeding Heart Socialist type" is hugely entertaining to say, but you might try finally looking at some definitions of Socialism and Communism sometime.
Ending with a quote:
"Moral courage is the most valuable and usually the most absent characteristic in men." - General George S. Patton, Jr
One thing I have noticed is there are a lot of people on the Buzz who have never served in the military. Yet they talk all this shit about war, a subject they know nothing of. Until you have been shot at, done the shooting, had the stress, had your mind so screwed with you know neither what day it is or time it is, you really shouldn't express other than you dislike it from the perspective that you'd never participate.
That makes about as much sense as saying you have to be a politician to have a valid opinion on politics. Bullshit. Nobody's telling you what it's like to be in a foxhole and having been in one doesn't endow you with indisputable insight into the geopolitical ramifications of a bogus invasion based on false premises, let alone the motivations of those who did so.
Until I get a refund on the taxes I've paid to support a war I opposed from the beginning, I'll be voicing my opinion on said war whenever and wherever I please. And I don't give a flying fuck at a rolling donut whether that meets with your approval or not!
Roy, don't know you, but I do agree with what you said.
So, since I've never killed anyone, I shouldn't have an opinion on murder. Maybe the next time there is a murder trial, there should only be convicted murders on the jury. I mean, they are the only ones that have experienced it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roy
That makes about as much sense as saying you have to be a politician to have a valid opinion on politics. Bullshit. Nobody's telling you what it's like to be in a foxhole and having been in one doesn't endow you with indisputable insight into the geopolitical ramifications of a bogus invasion based on false premises, let alone the motivations of those who did so.
Until I get a refund on the taxes I've paid to support a war I opposed from the beginning, I'll be voicing my opinion on said war whenever and wherever I please. And I don't give a flying fuck at a rolling donut whether that meets with your approval or not!
Well I did work on the MLRS, multiple launch rocket system and in its early stages the B1B and the F4 so I am pretty sure that things I have worked on have killed people, does that count? The really deadly stuff though was I worked for FritoLay for years and their chips kill millions. Ok, nevermind but I dont think that I should be giving advice to a general or a trained soldier on how to do their job but I think it is the responsibility of everyone to be informed and involved about if we go to war because in one way or another we are all somewhat responsible if we stand by and do nothing.
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"I'm not here to make a record, ya stupid cracker" Governor Pappy O Daniel
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