Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-11-2016   #1
Denver, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1999
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 855
Denver Post article

Rafting company was on probation when 11-year-old boy drowned – The Denver Post

Does anybody else think this article is an unfair attack on a good raft company?

One of the main problems I have with the article is how the author conflates a company who was on probation because of record keeping issues with the unfortunate death of the 11 year old who drowned because of a foot entrapment. It also gives the impression that raft companies are just a bunch of negligent companies who lie to customers and endanger their lives.

marko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2016   #2
lmyers's Avatar
Buena Vista, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2005
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 4,207
I definitely think it's an unfair, one sided article. What happened to personal responsibility? I heard a mention of the article on 9 News this morning and thought that was a pointless, biased statement...

GARNA’s mission is to foster stewardship of the resources of the greater Arkansas River region through education, volunteerism and experiences.
lmyers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2016   #3
tango's Avatar
Denver, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2003
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 689
Jennifer Brown is a hack with an agenda to push. Her articles are slanderous and calculated. She's hoping to sway public opinion to gain traction in litigation with those involved in the Durkee case.

Sent from my iPhone using Mountain Buzz
tango is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2016   #4
Western Slope, CO, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2009
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 45
I think that the increasing demand for commercial trips in Colorado is going to bring to the forefront multiple legal issues like this and most likely changes to the way regulations are created and enforced.

There is the long withstanding waiver principle. If someone can't swim, signs a waiver to go anyway and drowns, it is their fault.

Yet, If a guide service sends an old raft out with some questionable patches, one pops and flips everyone out, and someone dies, it is their fault.

What about the person who couldn't swim, signed the waiver and got on that bad patch boat that flipped ? The answer is that it will be a long, drawn out court battle with the most likely end result in more restrictions. Society will always sink to the lowest level.

Up to now there seems to have been a trust relationship between authorities and contractors. That trust relationship looks to be broken more and more as the demand increases and they get harder to enforce and contractors get more slack in their reporting.

It seems to me that river contractors should be crossing their 'T''s and dotting their 'I''s at the first opportunity they get in order to preserve their freedoms while they still can.
ColoradoDave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2016   #5
Old Guy in a PFD
Tucson, Arizona
Paddling Since: 1967
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,022
Indeed a hack job to sell advertising.
The reality is, no matter who that boy floated the Arkansas with, when his foot became entrapped he was done.
Even if someone had seen him go under right there, and tried to rescue him it would certainly have not been successful.

This is a tragedy and my heart goes out to the family. Nothing will ease that pain they now carry, but in the end it was an accident. The courts will now settle the issue, but the pain will continue.

All the rest is just fluff.
Schutzie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2016   #6
Jackson, Wyoming
Paddling Since: 2011
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 23
This is a really tragic story.

I think that a lot of people who sign up for commercial rafting are not honest with the staffers entrusted to save their lives or themselves.

It would be very plausible in my opinion that the staff did ask if the guests could swim and that the grandparents would lie about their own or their children's abilities.

We see it all the time, parents lie about their children's ages so the family can still all go rafting together.

Also, likening a bookkeeping violation to a safety violation is dis-honest reporting.

This is hands down my biggest fear by being involved in this industry and past time. I wouldn't want this outcome for my greatest enemy. You as a guide can only do so much, and things go wrong, because river's are wild, and guide's are human. There is never a guarantee of safety when boating, even on flat water or lakes.
luckylauren is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4 Weeks Ago   #7
mattman's Avatar
Fraser, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2000
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 1,042
That article sounded pretty biased to me, and to have an agenda on it's mind. Any company could have had a boat get side way's in Zume Flume, regardless if there Guide documentation is missing paperwork.
This is a terrible tragedy, and my heart does go out to the family.

This is also a very good reminder for those still in the business to keep records to date always, it is one of the first things that will be looked at when a tragedy like this happens. Placing blame is a major part of the five stages of grief.

Keep your own copies of ALL training documents if you are a guide, it will make those yearly inspections way better for you if your employer can't seem to find paper work, and it may be your best friend in a court some day if something terrible happens.

I also wonder what's up with AC allegedly not having a trip leader on some trips. That part was a bit strange to me.
The times I did see AC on the lower Ark when I was a guide, they did seem to be a solid company.
So sorry to hear this, both for the victim, family, and guides involved, this is a guides worst nightmare.
" I wish I were a headlight, on a North bound train..."
mattman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3 Weeks Ago   #8
Portland, Oregon
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 16

Another possible scenario is they actually told the company they wanted a beginner trip but the company put them on browns cause they didnt have a beginner trip that day. So put them in an oar boat and they'll be fine. Happens all the time in the industry and usually works out. I would've turned them away. Not even making money on that boat anyway.

it does sound like a fluke accident with no chance of rescue though.
blueskypete is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3 Weeks Ago   #9
Western Slope, CO, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2009
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 45
It really doesn't matter what the details are. What matters is what is admissibly presented in front of the courts. luckylauren eluded to it correctly, It doesn't matter if it happens in a river or a lake, if things go south, someone is likely going to come trying to take a chunk out of your ass and the only 'facts' that exist are the ones that are admissible. Ignore this to your detriment.
ColoradoDave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3 Weeks Ago   #10
Portland, Oregon
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 16
Details do matter

I think the details do matter. It's true that sometimes custies fudge or don't tell the truth to get on a trip. But let's also acknowledge that it is common in the industry for companies to fudge to get people to do the trip that is easiest for the company and not always best for the customer. You are going to be more liable if the later is proved rather than the former.

Let's also admit that the guide f'up. I'm not saying that everyone is perfect but we should acknowledge when we make a mistake as well. Maybe not in a legal sense but in a guide standard sense. In a light oar rig you should be able to get down brown's without hitting any waves if you want to.

You are correct, that in the end, the courts will come to a resolution but that won't do anything for all parties involved in this tragedy. I stay awake some nights thinking about stuff like this and can't imagine remaining passionate about the industry if I was involved.

blueskypete is offline   Reply With Quote

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

Similar Threads
Topic Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Cloud Seeding Article from Denver Post Andy H. Whitewater Kayaking 5 12-26-2011 01:21 PM
Denver Post Article timberline Whitewater Kayaking 8 08-31-2009 04:34 PM
Denver Post article on squirtboating sgb3000 Whitewater Kayaking 0 08-29-2006 03:54 PM
Denver Post Article on the Upper Animas mania Whitewater Kayaking 10 05-22-2006 05:22 PM
Article in Denver Post on Palisade WW park... badkins Whitewater Kayaking 4 02-07-2005 02:10 PM

» Classified Ads
Dagger Mamba Creeker 8.1

posted by rjskibum

2014-Dagger Mamba Creeker 8.1 Purchased July 2014 from...

kitchen dry box

posted by Johnny

I am selling a 44" long x 13.5" wide x 16" high aluminum...

Plum ski 100mm crampon

posted by rforster

New - never used Plum crampons feature a specially...

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

Our Communities

Our communities encompass many different hobbies and interests, but each one is built on friendly, intelligent membership.

» More about our Communities

Automotive Communities

Our Automotive communities encompass many different makes and models. From U.S. domestics to European Saloons.

» More about our Automotive Communities

Marine Communities

Our Marine websites focus on Cruising and Sailing Vessels, including forums and the largest cruising Wiki project on the web today.

» More about our Marine Communities

Copyright 2002-2012 Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:32 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.