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Old 07-17-2009   #201
Andy H.'s Avatar
Wheat Ridge, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1995
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A Google search on "Christo Over the River Economic Analysis" turns up this:

Over The River is expected to be one of the largest visitor attractions in the state and may result in nearly $200 million flowing into the Colorado economy.
By comparison, the rafting industry brings in about $60 million, results in road congestion, wear and tear along the river banks, and lots of other environmental impacts associated with the tourists and support staff.

Ed Quillen, typically a very pro-environment writer had a column in the Denver Post yesterday. He got in a couple of good zingers on the issues.

On the "unspoiled" nature of Bighorn Sheep Canyon:

That canyon has a trans-continental highway, U.S. 50. It has railroad tracks that, until 1996, were carrying 20 freight trains a day. The sides are dotted with old kilns and quarries. Sure, it's scenic, but if it's natural and pristine, so is Britney Spears.
On the access impacts on US 50:

The problem with that argument is that U.S. 50 is already a rather unreliable route. Mostly a two-lane highway, it is sometimes closed by rockslides, or by scheduled work to scale off potential rockslides. Accidents close the road for hours. In other words, if your life is such that you really have to be somewhere else in a reasonable time, you can't rely on U.S. 50, Christo or no Christo.

Nothing in the world is more yielding and gentle than water. Yet it has no equal for conquering the resistant and tough. The flexible can overcome the unbending; the soft can overcome the hard. - Lao Tse
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Old 07-17-2009   #202
Riparian's Avatar
Little Village, Colorado
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Sure, it's scenic, but if it's natural and pristine, so is Britney Spears.
This Cristo thang is raging out of control! Bringing poor Britney Spears into it just takes it to a new level... Hasn't she been through enough?

Britney Watch! - Clips - South Park Studios

Uh, I'm just gonna go find a cash machine.
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Old 07-17-2009   #203
Livingston's Avatar
Denver, Colorado
Join Date: Jan 2004
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You keep saying no one has shown you any economic data. It has been on the otr website for years. As has most, if not all, of your other questions. Go educate yourself and then come back with arguments.
Over The River
"I think I handled my alcohol pretty well considering how drunk I was." -Cousin Dan
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Old 07-18-2009   #204
Littleton, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1998
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Originally Posted by Livingston View Post
You keep saying no one has shown you any economic data. It has been on the otr website for years. As has most, if not all, of your other questions. Go educate yourself and then come back with arguments.
Over The River

Thanks--I'm looking these over. really quickly though, the economic numbers cite a JFSato report, but I wasn't able to access this report anywhere--is this available? Without the supporting analysis, the christo website seems to be heavy on bold claims but light on backup assuptions, models, etc. --I have a hard time believing the projections they are claiming--380,000 visitors and $200 million (may result in) ??? --I can see those kind of numbers closer to urban areas, but not in the Ark valley--90,000 to watch the teardown?...but, I'll wait to see the Sato report

the BLM EIS docs are a little more substantial at least--they've obviously done their homework and hired a pretty good engineer.

that being said, I still don't support this action--and trust me, I would have no problem changing my mind and "backing down" if after reviewing this info, I thought this was worth supporting...but there is a process for these things, and if people are so enthalled with this thing, and it gets enough support to get approved, then I'll grant that at least they have shown some due diligence--I just really hope their optimistic claims and assertions come true...
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Old 08-06-2009   #205
Dipshit with the most.
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Bellevue, Idaho
Paddling Since: 1991
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Posts: 2,497
Heard about this a couple of years ago. I didn't really see the value of the art.

But if it does go up, I would very likely bring the family to show the kids how weird people can be.

Then come back later with a big bag of ....... and a bottle of Crown and do it again.
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Old 08-06-2009   #206
Join Date: Jul 2006
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They are estimating 300,000 people will visit this 'exhibit' the 2-3 weeks that it will be up. Won't that be great? Especially if you're on the river and there is any type of accident, just think, the gaper crew will be able to come down from the road and rescue anyone without even having to call the emergency personnel. Emergency crews probably wouldn't be able to navigate their way there anyways with everyone gawking at the beautiful 'art'.

Oh yea... this project will take a few years to install, so, even when it's not 'officially opened' there will still be the bedsheets hanging from above the river months ahead of time, not just 3 weeks. RADICAL!
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Old 09-05-2009   #207
Join Date: Nov 2006
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In some cases art isn't about beauty but the lack of it. You became part of the art when you rallyed against it because you are fighting for what you percieve as beautiful. His art is about taking something that is taken for granted and covering it so you don't have it anymore. Temporarily of course. If you think he will leave a mess go to Rifle Gap there was a huge orange curtain there back in the 80's or 70's that he put up. If you really think of the ark as a pristine wilderness perhaps you should visit Lodore, Yampa, Westwater or CAT and get your pristine adjusted. Then maybe you can turn your eye toward Roan Cliffs and see what devastation of really pristine trout streams and rivers really are. Why not go and fight something that will be permanent.
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Old 09-05-2009   #208
poncha springs, Colorado
Join Date: Aug 2009
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i live and work in the area where this thing is supposed to happen the thing is you got people around here who are all for it....they have their reasons but it doesn't matter what those reasons are because you have the other half who are dead set against it and it doesn't matter why...the point is both sides are pretty passionate about why they want it or don't want it so much so that it's pitting neighbor against neighbor business owner against business owner,hell i had a guy in a bar threaten to kick my ass over it. now i ask you, how is this of any benefit to any of us. i say send these two packing
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Old 10-15-2009   #209
Grangeville, Idaho
Paddling Since: 2002
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Over the River project on Ark

I was browsing for a new job at work (ha) and came accros an interesting position directly relating to the upcoming Over the River art project on the Arkansas.
Thought it was pretty interesting.

On USA jobs:
Project Manager (Over the River),

"This position is located in the Royal Gorge Field Office, in Canon City, Colorado. The incumbent serves as the project manager for the Christo and Jeanne-Claude Over The River Art Project, Environmental Impact Statement and land use application within the Royal Gorge Field Office (RGFO) in Canon City. This project proposes to suspend 5.9 miles of translucent fabric panels, over eight segments of the Arkansas River between Salida and Canon City, Colorado. The BLM processes this external action as a realty authorization under 43 CFR 2900. The informed decision to be made by BLM is whether, where, when, and under what terms and conditions public lands will be made available to Christo and Jeanne-Claude Over The River Corporation. The EIS will also inform decision-making by five cooperating agencies.

The artwork, if permitted, will be exhibited for a period of 14 days during the summer. The project lead will provide daily oversight and coordination responsibilities including adherence to all applicable federal laws and quality control in the preparation of an EIS completed by a third-party contractor. The project lead is responsible for managing interdisciplinary staff and communications with cooperating agencies, including Colorado Department of Transportation, Colorado Department of Natural Resources (including State Parks, Division of Wildlife, State Land Board), Fremont County, and Chaffee County specific to the Over The River project.

The timeline for this project is estimated to be through calendar year 2011. The deliverables of this project manager will include the Preliminary Draft EIS, Draft EIS, Preliminary and FEIS, all Technical Support Documents along with a Record Of Decision for this project. The incumbent will also be responsible for maintaining an administrative record for the project and have control over the administrative record that will be maintained in the RGFO. The record will require constant updating and maintaining through the project development. Assistance will also be provided by RGFO staff. The quality of the work will be governed by the adherence to two Memoranda of Understanding, the Contract EIS Statement of Work, and BLM guidance on management of EIS projects."
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Old 10-15-2009   #210
Grangeville, Idaho
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The artists will be at CSU today at 6:30 giving a presentation and answering questions about the project

When: 6:30 p.m. today - 10/15
Where: University Center for the Arts, Griffin Concert Hall, 1400 Remington St.
Cost: FREE; tickets are required though
Information: (970) 491-4TIX or CSUTix.com- Campus Box Office - Colorado State University
Photos will not be allowed during the first part of the lecture but will be allowed during the Q&A portion

Article from Coloradoan:

Internationally renowned artists Christo and Jeanne-Claude will present a lecture today at the University Center for the Arts as part of Colorado State University's Critic and Artists Residency Series.

Christo and Jeanne-Claude are best known for their large-scale works of art, including "Valley Curtain in Grand Hogback" (Rifle, Colorado, 1970-1972), "The Pont Neuf Wrapped" (Paris, 1975-1985) and "The Gates" (Central Park, New York City, 1979-2005).

The artists will give a slide-show presentation of previous projects and current works in progress, including their latest "Over the River: Project for the Arkansas River," (Colorado, in progress since 1992). The temporary work of art will be comprised of 5.9 miles of fabric panels, suspended horizontally, high above the water of the Arkansas River, in eight distinct areas along a 40-mile stretch of the river between Salida and Canon City.

Later in the presentation, Christo and Jeanne-Claude will host a question and answer period. A critical aspect of Christo and Jeanne-Claude's work involves dialogue and discussion; patrons are encouraged to take part.

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